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Old 29-11-2012, 13:23   #106
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

I was rowing the grand kids around the anchorage when we were stopped by the water cops. They gave my grand kids a tee shirt for wearing there pfd's. I was pleasantly surprised as I expected the "bend over and spread em" routine.

Reading people or people skills in general don't seem to be part of the training for these para military types. A little courtesy goes a long way on both sides.
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Old 29-11-2012, 14:43   #107
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

I thought the whole idea for having sh#t loads of guns in the hands of the citizenry was to prevent da Gubberment from acting like this?

"they" may only be able to take yer gun when they can prise it from yer cold dead hands, but seems folks are happy to give up their balls long before..........I guess a willingness (and need?) to bend over for da man is a cultural thing .

Fingers crossed that being "free" don't catch on over here .
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Old 29-11-2012, 15:06   #108
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
I thought the whole idea for having sh#t loads of guns in the hands of the citizenry was to prevent da Gubberment from acting like this?

"they" may only be able to take yer gun when they can prise it from yer cold dead hands, but seems folks are happy to give up their balls long before..........I guess a willingness (and need?) to bend over for da man is a cultural thing .

Fingers crossed that being "free" don't catch on over here .
You are not supposed to be so observant of that stuff.

I do, however, know of two families that were on one boat in the Bahamas in the 80s (when there was a lot of dangerous drug things happening) that were approached directly and shot at. If they had not had the weapons they had and the ability to kill with them they most certainly would not be alive to complain about today's security.
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Old 29-11-2012, 15:45   #109
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
I thought the whole idea for having sh#t loads of guns in the hands of the citizenry was to prevent da Gubberment from acting like this?

"they" may only be able to take yer gun when they can prise it from yer cold dead hands, but seems folks are happy to give up their balls long before..........I guess a willingness (and need?) to bend over for da man is a cultural thing .

Fingers crossed that being "free" don't catch on over here .
When one is out gunned, one has to proceed with caution. A show of force is only good if you think you can win.

It's called peaceful resolution!

The Constitution states "bare arms against our enemies" not our own forces, unless they become unlawful, which has to be ironed out in the courts.

Basically, if we're invaded by another country/gov. Then a militia can be formed to over power the gov. Fortunately, the media has been able to smear the this gov enough to turn the tides before it comes to arms.

The guns are just back up/insurance! Premature use is unlawful in itself.
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Old 29-11-2012, 16:17   #110
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Years ago in Key West, a friend who we'll call "George" had a 13' Whaler with a Johnson 50 on it; to say the least it was FAST. Well it seems George was on his way out to his boat on the mooring from KW Bight in the go-fast "dinghy". Some black gubbermint type RIB shined a spotlight and ordered "Stand-by for boarding" over the loud hailer.

Well it seems the gubbermint boat was just as fast as George's...... but it drew 2' more water and George knew the harbor well Took 3 hours for another gubbermint boat to tow the first one out of the seagrass... I wonder if they payed the fine for tearing it up?
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Old 29-11-2012, 16:25   #111
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
I thought the whole idea for having sh#t loads of guns in the hands of the citizenry was to prevent da Gubberment from acting like this?

"they" may only be able to take yer gun when they can prise it from yer cold dead hands, but seems folks are happy to give up their balls long before..........I guess a willingness (and need?) to bend over for da man is a cultural thing .

Fingers crossed that being "free" don't catch on over here .
DOJ, if you start a war, I won't be happy,

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Old 29-11-2012, 16:37   #112
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Back in the '80s in the Bahamas there was a lot of smuggling going on (Normans Cay was in full operation, etc.), and we heard through the grapevine (take with a dose of salt) of folks shining spotlights in the middle of the night to see "what was going on" and promptly being answered by gunfire. Back then you would see boats tied up in odd spots painted flat black with five outboards on the stern, and you didn't ask any questions. We were checked out a few times when anchored in out of the way spots, and I'm pretty sure they were not law enforcement but the other guys. The thing is as long as you minded your own business they didn't bother you--too much money at stake and they didn't want to draw any extra attention to what they were up to. Today, the drug smugglers seem to be a lot more violent, but on the other hand they tend to be off the main cruising routes.
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Old 29-11-2012, 17:44   #113
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Unicorns and Rainbows apply here...
Don't make the mods mad.
If you really want to talk about political stuff involving sailing, you need to go to sailing anarchy.
I suppose I'll get whacked for this as well.
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Old 29-11-2012, 18:06   #114
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

My hat is off to you David!
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:54   #115
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

You guys want to think yourselves lucky that you are from the USA(most of you then) You should try entering the place if your not a USA person!! just to add a little ditty. I used to shoot clay's on occasion, some guy's used to turn up in camo gear to shoot clay's would u believe?? What would they be wearing if they came to board a yacht??
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:12   #116
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

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They didn't identify themselves or leave a boarding report.

I was thinking of this thread the other but couldn't remember the name.

Did you ever find out whose those guys were?
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:13   #117
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

The ninth circuit court of appeals has ruled that "night-time" boardings of vessels for routine safety checks constitutes "unreasonable" seach.

I quote the ninth circuit's findings:

"If the stop of an automobile upon a public highway by an iden- tifiable police car is felt to create such subjective intrusion as to require the use of potentially less intrusive alternatives, surely the stop of an isolated boat after dark, followed by a physical intrusion upon the boat itself, would have an unset- tling effect immeasurably greater, placing a far greater demand upon government to come forward with balancing factors.

If the purpose of the random stop is to ascertain and dis- courage noncompliance with safety regulations, we see no rea- son why this purpose cannot suflticiently be accomplished dur- ing the daylight hours. Thus, reliance on this less intrusive means eliminates the need for stops and boardings after dark where no cause to suspect noncompliance exists.g"



This ruling overturned a conviction of a marijuana smuggling case because the CG boarded the vessel after dark in SF bay for a "routine boarding.

The boarding you describe was definitely NOT USCG

This is a quote from USCG regs re: conduct related to boardings:

"The purpose of boarding is the enforcement of boating safety laws. Sound discretion should be used to insure that ves- sels in legitimate trade, and those engaged in recreational pur- suits are not unnecessarily hampered in theirmovements or subject to unnecessary annoyance and interference by unrea- sonable exercise of authority.
It is not possible to set forth hard and fast rules as to when and where to examine vessels. It is important that Coast Guard enforcement operations should be conducted in such a fashion that just cause for complaint is not given."



I have a close friend who is a DEA agent who conducts maritime operations/boardings/etc. I asked him if they conduct boardings in this manner.

He assured me that the FIRST thing they do is identify themselves as federal drug enforcement agents.

This is most likely a DHS operation. DHS is becoming progressively dispotic in their conduct. A quick look at TSA and their disregard for the bill of rights and more specifically the 4th Amendment will tell you all you need to know.

US citizens are being conditioned to obey DHS without question. DHS is setting precedent which will enable them to circumvent the Bill of Rights completely at some later date due to court rulings based on precedents established in the name of "National Security" and inacted in the manner described in your report and justified in lower courts based on the protection of the homeland.

It's about control. Set the precedent, get a lower court to uphold the ruling, the get a fed court to uphold the ruling.

To do this they need minor cases that do not draw public attention.

Your boarding was a conditioning/prcedent boarding.

You complied because you felt you had no choice. This is cohersion.

You played your role in their game. It only gets worse from here. What do you think they would have done if you had weapons on board as the senond amendment allows? You were not allowed to contact USCG. Does this seem lawful?
If a cop enters your home do you not think he would allow you to call 911 to confirm his legitimacy?
This is DHS establishing authority above the constituiton. Check the definitions of "legal" and "lawful".
What they did is legal due to executive orders issued by the president and "acts" established by congress. It is not lawful under the US Constitution which one of our recent presidents said was "just a piece of paper".

It only goes downhill from here unless US Citizens realise that the true power lies with us and this needs to be stopped. US citizens are being conditioned to feel powerless in the presence of government agents.

Do you think John Adams would have complied? Would Franklin? Jefferson?

What would Patrick Henry do?

All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

When is enough enough?
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:18   #118
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

The info about the District Courts' ruling and the CG and DEA poliy was interesting and useful info.


But FYI it then it got a little ruined by a rant and I stopped reading.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:36   #119
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

BTW: The only thing the government needs to do now in order to gane complete control is to disarm the citizens.

Sound familiar?

Oh, it sounds like conspiracy theories. Tin-foil hat wearing nut jobs scared of the government right. The government is doing this to protect you from the boogey man. It's a game as old as civilization itself. This is nothing more than history repeating itself.

Question: How many times has our homeland been attacked by terrorists (or any other power) since 1790?

A dozen maybe? Two dozen? In 230 years!!! and now, today Americans feel so threatened that they are willing to give up everything this country stands for.

How many people do you know that have been attcked by terrorists?
How's the war on drugs going? It's a sham. It's about control.

We defeated the Germans, Italians and the Japaneese in less than 5 years and without the loss of our freedoms. Now, because some bad guys living in caves 1000's of miles away swore doom on America we feel the need to shred the constitution and depend on DHS to keep us safe. Give me a break.

Why do Americans feel the need to give up their freedoms and liberties so that they can be protected from a threat that most have never faced?

They reate a threat and then take away our freedoms so they can protect us from it.
How do you guys think this ends?
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:42   #120
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Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

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How do you guys think this ends?
I know how this thread will end if we go down the rant route that isn't specific to cruising! That is why there is a warning if you post to it.

And I hope this 1 doesn't because the court ruling was worth knowing and I still hope to learn who did the orginal posted boarding.
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