Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-11-2012, 14:45   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Richmond, VA
Boat: 1975 Dufour 31
Posts: 273
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Doesn't the fourth amendment apply here?
__________________

__________________
AirBoyzT is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 20-11-2012, 14:49   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Pearson 39-2 "Sea Story"
Posts: 1,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBoyzT
Doesn't the fourth amendment apply here?
Kind of hard to apply anything if you can't figure out who it was!
__________________

__________________
SV Sea Story adventures
Greenhand is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 20-11-2012, 14:50   #33
Mooderator
 
capngeo's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Key West & Sarasota
Boat: Cal 28 "Happy Days"
Posts: 4,211
Images: 12
Send a message via Yahoo to capngeo Send a message via Skype™ to capngeo
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBoyzT View Post
Doesn't the fourth amendment apply here?
Not on a boat
__________________
Any fool with a big enough checkbook can BUY a boat; it takes a SPECIAL type of fool to build his own! -Capngeo
capngeo is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 20-11-2012, 14:53   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Richmond, VA
Boat: 1975 Dufour 31
Posts: 273
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
Not on a boat
not according to the constitution....

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Effects being a boat, automobile, etc.
__________________
AirBoyzT is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 20-11-2012, 14:58   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Beaufort, SC
Boat: 2004 Hunter 41 AC
Posts: 308
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBoyzT View Post
not according to the constitution....

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Effects being a boat, automobile, etc.
Try telling the USCG or CBP they don't have the authority to board your boat and let me know how it goes. They do, btw. Quoting the constitution doesn't help.

Scott
__________________
s/vPainkiller is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 20-11-2012, 15:03   #36
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBoyzT
Doesn't the fourth amendment apply here?
Didn't Bush amend that?
__________________
DeepFrz is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 20-11-2012, 15:04   #37
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,311
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

I figure about 6 more posts!
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 20-11-2012, 15:06   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Richmond, VA
Boat: 1975 Dufour 31
Posts: 273
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Didn't Bush amend that?
Bush and Obama did....Patriot Act and NDAA....such tyrants amongst us....

I think if someone boards your boat and doesn't identify themselves, especially when asked, carrying guns, you have a right to defend yourself with little to no repercussions....

I don't have a problem with the USCG boarding my vessel if respectful...I'm just saying, I've had police that were rude that wanted to search my truck, I told them get a warrant.....
__________________
AirBoyzT is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 20-11-2012, 15:08   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Richmond, VA
Boat: 1975 Dufour 31
Posts: 273
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/vPainkiller View Post
Try telling the USCG or CBP they don't have the authority to board your boat and let me know how it goes. They do, btw. Quoting the constitution doesn't help.

Scott
but should it be that way? Should constitutional rights be violated? I'm playing devils advocate here...
__________________
AirBoyzT is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 20-11-2012, 15:11   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Pearson 39-2 "Sea Story"
Posts: 1,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas
I figure about 6 more posts!
Ok, there was one outright political comment, but it is important that people know what their actual rights are. The fourth amendment protects us from "unreasonable" searches, but we, as individuals don't get to define "unreasonable." As a society, we have agreed that probable cause = reasonable and we have pretty much agreed that vehicles of all kinds are subject to search, especially when approaching our borders.

As for being boarded moving away from our borders...I am trying to picture who would use a sailboat as a getaway vehicle, but maybe they would think it was inconspicuous?
__________________
SV Sea Story adventures
Greenhand is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 20-11-2012, 15:18   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Richmond, VA
Boat: 1975 Dufour 31
Posts: 273
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenhand View Post
Ok, there was one outright political comment, but it is important that people know what their actual rights are. The fourth amendment protects us from "unreasonable" searches, but we, as individuals don't get to define "unreasonable." As a society, we have agreed that probable cause = reasonable and we have pretty much agreed that vehicles of all kinds are subject to search, especially when approaching our borders.

As for being boarded moving away from our borders...I am trying to picture who would use a sailboat as a getaway vehicle, but maybe they would think it was inconspicuous?
I guess they can consider the "coast" as a "border"....in my opinion though it is only covered if you are entering US Waters or entering a port......but who am I
__________________
AirBoyzT is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 20-11-2012, 15:19   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Beaufort, SC
Boat: 2004 Hunter 41 AC
Posts: 308
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBoyzT View Post
but should it be that way? Should constitutional rights be violated? I'm playing devils advocate here...
I don't know that anyone really likes getting boarded. It's a fact of life and it's been that way for a long time. The Coast Guard's legal right to board your vessel with or without your permission has been there long before the Patriot Act. I'm not a historian, so I can't give you the dates, but preventing smuggling has long been part of their mission.

Frankly, I feel like you. If I'm stopped by law inforcement anywhere, I would expect them to be professional but courteous. Heck, I have enormous respect for the job our Coasties and CBP are doing. But they also need to remember that we're not all criminals trying to hide something.

Scott
__________________
s/vPainkiller is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 20-11-2012, 15:21   #43
Registered User
 
Astrid's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern British Columbia, part of the time in Prince Rupert and part of the time on Moresby Island.
Boat: 50-ft steel Ketch
Posts: 1,885
Send a message via MSN to Astrid Send a message via Yahoo to Astrid
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

According the Congressional Act of August 4, 1790, 1 Stat. 145. Section 31:

"That it shall be lawful for all collectors, naval officers, surveyors, inspectors, and the officers of the revenue cutters herein after mentioned, to go on board of ships or vessels in any part of the United States, or within four leagues of the coast thereof, if bound to the United States, whether in or out of their respective districts, for the purposes of demanding the manifests aforesaid, and of examining and searching the said ships or vessels . . . ."

This statute is the ancestor of the current statutes which have been enacted to clarify and expand the rights and duties to such agencies as were not in existence in 1790 (i.e., DEA, Homeland Security, etc.
__________________
'Tis evening on the moorland free,The starlit wave is still: Home is the sailor from the sea, The hunter from the hill.
Astrid is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 20-11-2012, 15:32   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Richmond, VA
Boat: 1975 Dufour 31
Posts: 273
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrid View Post
According the Congressional Act of August 4, 1790, 1 Stat. 145. Section 31:

"That it shall be lawful for all collectors, naval officers, surveyors, inspectors, and the officers of the revenue cutters herein after mentioned, to go on board of ships or vessels in any part of the United States, or within four leagues of the coast thereof, if bound to the United States, whether in or out of their respective districts, for the purposes of demanding the manifests aforesaid, and of examining and searching the said ships or vessels . . . ."

This statute is the ancestor of the current statutes which have been enacted to clarify and expand the rights and duties to such agencies as were not in existence in 1790 (i.e., DEA, Homeland Security, etc.
Thanks for the clarification....still don't think it's right lol.....but like I said, who am I
__________________
AirBoyzT is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 20-11-2012, 15:33   #45
Registered User
 
Snore's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: www.USCGMaster.com
Boat: Tartan 33
Posts: 1,881
+1 for the distress call.. Seems prudent when unknown boarders are coming over the gunwale to activate the EPIRB and throw it over the side. Hell throwing it over the side and just saying you activated it may be worth the $800 to watch their faces!
__________________

__________________
"Whenever...it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea..." Ismael ---- NEW website! www.USCGMaster.com
Snore is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply

Tags
security

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:05.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.