Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-01-2013, 09:45   #166
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 299
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
I view the TS airport stop as a different circumstance. It is voluntary, as I "choose" to travel by air, and I know I am going submit to being searched if I choose air travel.
And how big a step is it to being searched if you "choose" to travel by any means at all? You could have stayed at home.

"Freedom to travel is a great idea, but we're in a war."

See how that works?
__________________

__________________
bill352 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2013, 10:25   #167
Registered User
 
anjou's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Malvernshire, on the sunny side of the hill.
Boat: 50' steel canal and river cruiser
Posts: 1,905
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

If I ever have occasion to be groped by the TSA, im going to fake a very loud orgasm and see how they respond.

Well, come on, its not illegal is it?, They cant touch me for it.
__________________

__________________
www.amy-artimis.blogspot.com
anjou is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2013, 10:50   #168
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
In the case of air travel one can charter or one can become licensed and fly oneself. In the case of road travel one can take the greyhound or a train.

I get the slippery slope arguments entirely. I can argue that one can "go of the grid" and live like a cave person with pretty much zero government oversight and one probably could. Another can argue that all modern conveniences are "necessities" and therefore I should have unlimited freedom and zero oversight.

Fortunately, I believe +95% of Americans believe it is a balance. There are the 5% or so who seem to want either zero government, or at least zero governments involved in the pursuits they "choose" to enjoy ot they want a nanny state where everyone "else" is watched and presided over.

The rest of us have long and often vigorous debate on where the lines should be and we attempt to elect representatives that share our view. That's how this system is set up and that is pretty much how it seems to work.

On a different vein there is the issue of effectiveness of the search. In the case of air travel, as an industry insider, I can tell you there are much bigger holes than the front door.

The front door search (TSA screenings) act more as a deterrent than they do as a method to catch a bad guy. Having said that I travel 200+ days a year and take probably 30 or more flights. Screening is a part of my life. I hate it but I understand why we do it. I just wish there truly was an "express" lane. Clear me once, clear me forever. I don't mind any kind of investigation into my background. I would probably stand up better than 90% of the TSA employees screening me...
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2013, 12:13   #169
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,311
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by anjou View Post
If I ever have occasion to be groped by the TSA, im going to fake a very loud orgasm and see how they respond.

Well, come on, its not illegal is it?, They cant touch me for it.
I wouldn't count on it being OK to fake one. You are probably safer from legal standpoint to just go ahead and have a real one!
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2013, 12:50   #170
Registered User
 
anjou's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Malvernshire, on the sunny side of the hill.
Boat: 50' steel canal and river cruiser
Posts: 1,905
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
I wouldn't count on it being OK to fake one. You are probably safer from legal standpoint to just go ahead and have a real one!

Eeewwwww Don, thats waaaay too kinky. Have you seen the gestapo guards who work at TSA?
__________________
www.amy-artimis.blogspot.com
anjou is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2013, 13:00   #171
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,311
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by anjou View Post
Eeewwwww Don, thats waaaay too kinky. Have you seen the gestapo guards who work at TSA?

I was just tying to save you further hassle, like a back room body search.

You should say thanks!
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2013, 13:20   #172
Registered User
 
westsail374's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Durham, NC
Boat: Looking...
Posts: 318
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
I wouldn't count on it being OK to fake one. You are probably safer from legal standpoint to just go ahead and have a real one!
I respectfully and non-controversally suggest that it might be prudent to get a video of the event and post it on CF so that you could get the friendly feedback of your cruising friends.
__________________
westsail374 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2013, 13:21   #173
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 542
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Has anyone considered using pinhole and small cannon type remote cameras activated remotely (pretty cheap really, and would be good for general boat security) and to record these guys?

Seems to me the DEA or HLS isn't the CG, so where is the probably cause to be detained? I understand the probably cause issue is different on a boat, but these departments have different purposes, the DEA doesn't check for PFDs.

Wonder how ticked they would be if you denied boarding siting your "rights"....then they would board anyway. Might make for a good news story. I doubt you'll get anything done by any representative, as they enjoy the ego trip of total control, so it will have to start by public demand and opinion as to what is reasonable, even in our forever war on terriorism.
__________________
Wavewacker is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2013, 15:14   #174
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 299
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by anjou View Post
If I ever have occasion to be groped by the TSA, im going to fake a very loud orgasm and see how they respond.
Don't know how TSA will respond, but I'd expect a few women in the line behind you to say, "I'll have what she's having."
__________________
bill352 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2013, 15:38   #175
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
Dan, I would disagree about air travel being a voluntary choice. For most of us air travel is not a choice, it is the only means of getting someplace within any rational time frame. It may be a necessity for business or eldercare or other reasons.

The choice of traveling, by any means, is still a choice, or not. No one "has to" take a car or other alternate means of transportation, you have the freedom to stay home. Trying to rationalize air travel--which is federally and locally subsidized and uses the public commons instead of private right of way--is ridiculous. All goes back to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of..." and the freedom to move about and travel freely has been derived from that basic "liberty" thing.

If anything, the states found a better way to intrude on traffic stops. As a public safety issue, they require you to be licensed. As a part of the license terms, you have consented to a number of things--including traffic stops. Or so the logic goes, and the courts have upheld it. Now that's a clever if somewhat weaselish way to construe things. But it also sets up a standard which is in direct contrast to using commercial aviation, where I do not have to be licensed to be a passenger, and I do not have to consent to give up any of my Constitutional rights in order to make a commercial purchase, of my passage contract. In fact, it is generally and widely upheld that any commercial transaction or purchase which requires the sacrifice of any legal right, is generally prohibited. If the airline required me to give up my right to vote in order to be a passenger? I'd own the airline by the time the lawsuit was over, and we both know that.

Fourth amendment rights? No different from the vote. You can't legally require me to waive any part of them as part of a commercial sale.

Of course, these are the same airlines that successfully lobbied Congress and shut down the US domestic sky marshal program in the 80's, because "it costs too much". And we all know what having no sky marshalls cost us 11 years ago. How conveniently everyone forgets.

Now, if the TSA would only get on the program, wash my feet (pedicures for the ladies) while I'm having my shoes x-rayed, shine the shoes while they're in there, pass it off as a service rather than a dog-n-pony show...It isn't hard to respect the customers and take advantage of them at the same time. Heck, even PT Barnum said you've got to show the rubes some respect if you want them to come back again. And if they don't come back, you're out of business.

Voluntary choice? It isn't voluntary when there are no options to choose.
An eloquent piece.

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2013, 15:41   #176
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

I'm just happy that after the underwear bomber was caught they didn't make us strip naked before boarding.
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2013, 15:44   #177
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Airport security has descended into farce , most of it is for public consumption.


Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2013, 16:45   #178
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post

The front door search (TSA screenings) act more as a deterrent than they do as a method to catch a bad guy. Having said that I travel 200+ days a year and take probably 30 or more flights. Screening is a part of my life. I hate it but I understand why we do it. I just wish there truly was an "express" lane. Clear me once, clear me forever. I don't mind any kind of investigation into my background. I would probably stand up better than 90% of the TSA employees screening me...
I have friends who are pilots. They affirm that the only real security improvement was hardened cockpit doors. The rest is glitz to make old ladies feel better and to provide Fed jobs. (TSA = Thousands Standing Around) As far as a FAST Lane - why don't our Master Mariner Creds with the TSA/FBI vetted cards get us anywhere? We sure paid enough for them and they supposedly gain us access to military reservations and nuclear power facilities. I've used mine for ID at the TSA check point and was asked, "what is this?" - A curious question since the TSA goons are all suppolsed to own one.
__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2013, 18:23   #179
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post

I have friends who are pilots. They affirm that the only real security improvement was hardened cockpit doors. The rest is glitz to make old ladies feel better and to provide Fed jobs. (TSA = Thousands Standing Around) As far as a FAST Lane - why don't our Master Mariner Creds with the TSA/FBI vetted cards get us anywhere? We sure paid enough for them and they supposedly gain us access to military reservations and nuclear power facilities. I've used mine for ID at the TSA check point and was asked, "what is this?" - A curious question since the TSA goons are all suppolsed to own one.
Globally I and hundreds(?) of thousands of people have airport "backstage" passes and on airport driving licenses. There are literally hundreds of thousands of vehicles that drive on and off airports every day.

This is just the tip of the iceberg that keeps the commercial transportation system moving on a daily basis. I won't go into further details because for many reasons it is imprudent to do so.

Anyway just annoying that even an industry insider who travels 30+ times a year can't avoid the screenings.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2013, 19:21   #180
Mooderator
 
capngeo's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Key West & Sarasota
Boat: Cal 28 "Happy Days"
Posts: 4,211
Images: 12
Send a message via Yahoo to capngeo Send a message via Skype™ to capngeo
Re: Maltreatment By Homeland Security

Quote:
We sure paid enough for them and they supposedly gain us access to military reservations and nuclear power facilities
You're kidding right? Other than getting you into a port facility they are worth absolutely N-O-T-H-I-N-G.... That said, you can get into a port with one if you have a reason; try to flash your TWIC and say to the guard you "just want to look around"
__________________

__________________
Any fool with a big enough checkbook can BUY a boat; it takes a SPECIAL type of fool to build his own! -Capngeo
capngeo is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply

Tags
security

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:16.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.