Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-12-2018, 00:32   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 89
Images: 37
Re: Lost crew captain charged

These days you can get a Personal EPIRB with the life jacket, if I was in the water or on the boat, EPIRB activated 100% no matter the location, any chance at saving a life no matter how slim.


In this case MOB may have already been unconscious when he went overboard, this a valid motive for not raising an immediate alert. Any coroner would ask this question during cross examination of witnesses in an unexplained death.
__________________

Metal Boat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2018, 00:45   #32
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 6,381
Re: Lost crew captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal Boat View Post
These days you can get a Personal EPIRB with the life jacket, if I was in the water or on the boat, EPIRB activated 100% no matter the location, any chance at saving a life no matter how slim.

.....
An AIS MOB with DSC is far more likely to get you saved than a PLB EPRIB. At least if you are not single handing. The Eprib is likely to get the corpse recovered, if that's any concillation.
__________________

Paul L is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2018, 01:22   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 89
Images: 37
Re: Lost crew captain charged

Paul I am starting to think you have too much time on your hands mate......




Metal Boat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2018, 01:26   #34
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 6,381
Re: Lost crew captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal Boat View Post
Paul I am starting to think you have too much time on your hands mate......




Just sitting on a mooring watching the sun go down and browsing the interweb. But thanks for your concern.
Paul L is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2018, 01:36   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 89
Images: 37
Re: Lost crew captain charged

No Need to thank me Paul I am always here for you if you need me......




Metal Boat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2018, 03:13   #36
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 14,679
Re: Lost crew captain charged

Metal Boat,

Personal locator beacons have their limitations. Read about the loss of the Cheeky Rafiki, it is detailed in that long thread.
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2018, 03:19   #37
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 8,879
Re: Lost crew captain charged

Everyone is stating the case as a MOB - which usually infers an accidental or unintended occurrence. From what I have read, the deceased made an informed choice to depart the boat. He not fall overboard, he choose to jump overboard in order to go where he wanted to go.

Perhaps he was delusional, perhaps not - only a trained health care professional can really say - the rest of us (including the Captain and crew) are guessing. Yes, from I have read, he was delusional but I (or the Captain or the crew) can't know that for sure.

To prevent him from leaving the boat is depriving him of his liberty - literally kidnapping him.

The captain however does bear the responsibility of turning around and looking for him - knowing that he is unlikely to survive otherwise - sane or not.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2018, 03:47   #38
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 22,919
Images: 2
pirate Re: Lost crew captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
So those of you saying to setoff the EPRIB, is this to assist in rescuing the MOB or an attempt to cover your ass by appearing to do as much as possible? Would you make the same decision if instead of being 200 miles offshore you were a thousand miles offshore? If you were Master of a frieghter offshore would you also use the EPRIB?
Yes I would..
Beats the hell out of arriving in say the Azores minus one and when asked why, your reply is.. "Well there did not seem much point"
Theres just been an 80+ hr search for a guy who allegedly fell off a Caribe cruise ship.. and he was not missed till the next day.
The lunch bench attitude of "Ahh.. Blow the ******* away!!" only works at the lunch table, not a Maritime Court.. serious folk know this, the cowboys never learn.
__________________


Born To Be Wild.. Click on the picture.
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2018, 04:18   #39
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 22,919
Images: 2
pirate Re: Lost crew captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Everyone is stating the case as a MOB - which usually infers an accidental or unintended occurrence. From what I have read, the deceased made an informed choice to depart the boat. He not fall overboard, he choose to jump overboard in order to go where he wanted to go.

Perhaps he was delusional, perhaps not - only a trained health care professional can really say - the rest of us (including the Captain and crew) are guessing. Yes, from I have read, he was delusional but I (or the Captain or the crew) can't know that for sure.

To prevent him from leaving the boat is depriving him of his liberty - literally kidnapping him.

The captain however does bear the responsibility of turning around and looking for him - knowing that he is unlikely to survive otherwise - sane or not.
Wottie.. Gonna play devils advocate..
1/ Deceased was seen to be in a bad way (allegedly) when he arrived at the boat but was still taken on board.
2/ He was then throwing up constantly after departure from the moment they set sail but the skipper chose to continue.
3/ Allegedly an assualt took place after four days of disturbed, sometimes violent behavior following which the guy allegedly jumped over the side conveniently hitting his head on the rail while doing so.
4/ He then sank instantly..??? bodies dont sink that fast to my knowledge.. trapped air in clothing and body will bring them back up for a while..
5/ Regarding restraints, marine law allows for the master to restrain mutineers or anyone else who represents a potential threat to themslves, the crew or vessel.
6/ Following the failure to manage his vessel and crew the master further compounded the situation by failing to use all means available to raise the alarm or even carry out a rudimentary search for the man.
7/ They have admitted to dumping stuff over the side before arrival at St Thomas, drugs and a weapon.. what else was not reported.

If I were a prosecutor I would be rubbing my hands with glee.. and were I one of the crew of the boat I'd be nervous to say the least.
__________________


Born To Be Wild.. Click on the picture.
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2018, 05:09   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 9,994
Re: Lost crew captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Everyone is stating the case as a MOB - which usually infers an accidental or unintended occurrence. From what I have read, the deceased made an informed choice to depart the boat. He not fall overboard, he choose to jump overboard in order to go where he wanted to go.

Perhaps he was delusional, perhaps not - only a trained health care professional can really say - the rest of us (including the Captain and crew) are guessing. Yes, from I have read, he was delusional but I (or the Captain or the crew) can't know that for sure.

To prevent him from leaving the boat is depriving him of his liberty - literally kidnapping him.

The captain however does bear the responsibility of turning around and looking for him - knowing that he is unlikely to survive otherwise - sane or not.
The guy was seeing portals in clouds. I dont think an MD is required to determine him at least temporarily nuts.
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2018, 05:35   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 1,483
Re: Lost crew captain charged

Guess I'm a cowboy and assumer, cause this sounds like a good reason for lawyers' often deservedly bad reputations. Not to mention a waste of taxpayer money if the family is not the entity prosecuting.

if we can believe what is written in the article, seems to me an analogous situation would be a big jerk (psychotic or not) starting a fight with three acquaintances on a ten story rooftop, essentially threatening to throw them off, and then, unable to accomplish that, jumping himself. Unless I owned the building, I'd be hard pressed to feel any need to inform anyone of the trouble-makers' demise. Nor would I trouble myself to see if he might have survived his gravitational experiment...

As for the 'captains responsibility', at probably less than five knots, even with a calm sea, full moon and MOB pressed immediately after the fact, what are the chances of finding the guy, even if he didn't sink immediately?

And what do you do with him, alive or dead? Anyone here tried to get a 250 lb lifeless guy back on board or into a dinghy? What about one who didn't want to come?

Regarding 'fishiness', what purpose on earth could any of the 'survivors' of this sad tale have in substantially altering or fabricating facts? If they were going to lie about anything, seems the first would be that they did in fact turn around and look for him.

The only bad judgement here, if the story is accurate, regardless of the verdict, is the bringing of charges against the captain.
jimbunyard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2018, 05:44   #42
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 4,742
Re: Lost crew captain charged

I’m all argued out talking about this on Sailnet. I think the Capt made mistakes but so did the jumper. And, while the Capt has resoonsibility for his crew, each one of us has personal responsibility for our own care. It strikes me this guy, the jumper, was very derilict in his personal care that set things wrong. The Capt didn’t help his own case. It at this point there is no point in prosecuting the Capt because it’s just revenge. Can’t being the dead guy back.

But in any case attached is a link to an article that has the CG report attached. It image files so a PITA to read but worthwhile. New data there. The Capt did try to make contact, not 5 knot wind, lots of medical stuff. Best source of info we have.

My condolences to all on all sides of this cluster.


https://m.penbaypilot.com/article/ca...leases-/111009
hpeer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2018, 07:49   #43
Marine Service Provider
 
Snore's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Tartan 33 and OPB
Posts: 2,222
Send a message via Skype™ to Snore
Re: Lost crew captain charged

I entered this conversation (and another on FB) hesitant to opine without the facts. After reading the USCG report - the owner/master has some big issues. And the USCG has some explaining to do.

First if the owner has a license was he drug tested? Was there a log? What was in it?

Second, the owner stated he immediately tried the SSB and got static. Was that logged? I have not tested it, but doesn't USCG monitor specific SSB frequencies?

Third, assuming a proper MOB briefing was done before departure, it should have been a reflex reaction to immediately throwing a PFD, horse collar or some other floatable. If there was a delay, given the conditions, sailing a reciprocal course, or sailing back over the track, should have put them close to the MOB/mutineer. Yes seas were 8-10, but for a competent mariner that is not unmanageable in that size boat.

Fourth, a prudent master would have strapped an EPRIB to a PFD and dropped as close as possible to the location of the MOB (see #3). If nothing else this would drift at the same rate as the MOB/mutineer and helped a SAR team. And yes this is cause for an EPIRB- probably loss of life. I would rather defend using the EPIRB than defend my license.

I will freely admit that some of this is the result of having time to think.

The first rule of disaster management is that when the s@t hits the fan is to first evaluate, then make a plan and act. For the routine, problem evaluation may be a second or two. In a case like this they could buy time by going back, throwing a bunch of floatable items, watching him, while circling and evaluating. Instead, it looks like the owner elected to leave.

There is no way my morals would let a shipmate drown.
__________________
"Whenever...it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea..." Ismael -a link to my delivery website is in my profile—
Snore is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2018, 08:46   #44
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 4,742
Re: Lost crew captain charged

Snore;

I agree with all of what you said. I also put a fair amount of responsibility on the jumper for volunteering for the position when he was not fit, for muss-representing his capability, for hiding his medical conditions, etc.

The question is whole the Capt be prosecuted for his part? The USCG seems to say “No.”. I agree because I see no good to come from a prosecution other than revenge. It’s good the event has come to light for discussion. Not so much for punishment.
hpeer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2018, 08:59   #45
Marine Service Provider
 
Snore's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Tartan 33 and OPB
Posts: 2,222
Send a message via Skype™ to Snore
Lost crew captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Snore;

I agree with all of what you said. I also put a fair amount of responsibility on the jumper for volunteering for the position when he was not fit, for muss-representing his capability, for hiding his medical conditions, etc.

The question is whole the Capt be prosecuted for his part? The USCG seems to say “No.”. I agree because I see no good to come from a prosecution other than revenge. It’s good the event has come to light for discussion. Not so much for punishment.


I come back to my earlier post— did the owner ask IN WRITING if the crew had med issues? Is the response documented?

Perhaps it is my experience in regulated environments- but if it ain’t in writing - it doesn’t exist
__________________

__________________
"Whenever...it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea..." Ismael -a link to my delivery website is in my profile—
Snore is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
captain, crew, lost

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nasa Marine BM-1: Shows "Discharging" when being Charged hoppy Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 13 15-08-2013 10:11
Battery Charging with Load Applied = Incorrectly Charged Batteries Fuss Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 11 31-08-2011 12:44
Officer Charged in Ferry Sinking GordMay Off Topic Forum 13 17-03-2010 12:21
Two Battery Banks Correctly Charged? bryan and wendy Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 20 14-01-2010 09:42
12.5 Volts Fully Charged? Meck Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 7 18-09-2009 09:12



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:33.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.