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Old 28-12-2018, 14:00   #16
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Re: Lost crew captain charged

I can not understand why at least a limited MOB search pattern was not executed. There was no risk to the vessel to do this and its pretty ingrained in anyone who has basic training or reading about boats and MOB.
The call to have pulled the EPRIB is interesting. I don't think I would setoff my EPRIB in that situation. It would have done almost nothing to advance a possible rescue. So would you have setoff the EPRIB in that situation?
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Old 28-12-2018, 14:15   #17
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Yes.. if only to prove I had done everything possible.. even more so because of the circumstances that led up to him 'going overboard'..
The throwing over a lifering hours after and miles from the actual position was cynical to say the least.
Sorry.. Armchair quarterbacking.. but then I have been sorely tempted to throw someone over the side in the past.. but I resisted the temptation.
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Old 28-12-2018, 14:31   #18
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Re: Lost crew captain charged

I would have set of the epirb and conducted MOB. What I don't know is what I would do if I found him. I would be reluctant to bring him back on board.
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Old 28-12-2018, 14:39   #19
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I would have set of the epirb and conducted MOB. What I don't know is what I would do if I found him. I would be reluctant to bring him back on board.
Stick him in the dinghy on a long line..
But seriously, likely he'd be unconscious or at least exhausted.. restraints then head for the coast like they should have done on the second day out of Beaufort.
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Old 28-12-2018, 15:22   #20
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Re: Lost crew captain charged

Have to agree with Boaty here.
No excuse for not doing basic MOB procedures.
Calm seas, 5 knots of wind.
Come on, drop the sails, turn on the motor and go
get the guy OR at least make an attempt.
Then stick him in the towed life raft, head for shore
Then have the CG pick him up as soon as in helo range.
The poor guy might have been having a reaction to a
combination of drugs. Last I checked scopolamine patches are prescription.
All that said, as far as to why there is a prosecution
Id be looking at who gets to keep his boat if convicted???
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Old 28-12-2018, 15:41   #21
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Re: Lost crew captain charged

As to restraints, the large cable zip ties for bundling wires are quite adequate, and most boats carry a few. Any opiate, like codeine pills, also induce drowsiness.

But I really think Boatie is right, in that the skipper lost his skipperly demeanor, should have taken the guy ashore as soon as he realized the guy was losing contact with reality.

Once the decedent is overboard, it is mandatory to get him back aboard, hopefully alive. Then you'd have to restrain him, make appropriate notes in the ship's log. Document with photos if possible.

Trying to cover up afterwards was a sleaze bag deal, but failure to issue a mayday (danger of loss of life) IS criminal, as is the failure to try and recover the victim.

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Old 28-12-2018, 16:05   #22
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Re: Lost crew captain charged

Scopolamine can have psychoactive effects. Maybe that combined with the crew member's other issues and meds brought out the full on psychotic break.

https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/s...rm+@DOCNO+4074

Ive been present when someone had a full on psychotic break (fortunately not on a boat). It is really unsettling to be around when someone completely disconnects from reality. I could see that affecting decision making of the captain and crew.
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Old 28-12-2018, 18:12   #23
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Re: Lost crew captain charged

I posted this as I found it interesting as well as challenging from a human point of view as well as a sailor,cruiser,legal and practical.
The legal question will have an answer some time in the future.
The medical/psychiatric status more likely will never know in the absence of both a pertinent medical history as well as an autopsy.
The human part is easier? in as much as emotions present fear,anger,retribution are known,and somehow we can put ourselves on the shoes of the surviving crew,and we may or not agree with their reactions,or how we may have reacted.
Also a reminder that bad things happening seldom get any better with time.
From the master of a ship I believe there is a consensus from the more experienced sailors on this forum that took the time to provide insight and opinions that enlighten and gave me pointers,guidance and those are,
1) a man overboard incident calls for an immediate response and we all know the drill.
2) Coast Guard/local authorities MUST be contacted as soon as possible and the vessel to remain in the area (if possible) awaiting further instructions when indicated and appropriate.
3) Psychotic behavior is not that uncommon,if we have spent time sailing on passages and away from land we either have first hand experience and/or by reports,articles etc, and perhaps a basic understanding on management could be part of what we all know about medical emergencies.
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Old 28-12-2018, 19:23   #24
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Re: Lost crew captain charged

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Yes.. if only to prove I had done everything possible.. even more so because of the circumstances that led up to him 'going overboard'..
The throwing over a lifering hours after and miles from the actual position was cynical to say the least.
Sorry.. Armchair quarterbacking.. but then I have been sorely tempted to throw someone over the side in the past.. but I resisted the temptation.



I have to admit I would be very reluctant to bring him back aboard (scene straight out of Dead Calm) but boatman61 is absolutely right, the skipper made a number of bad decisions in a row (swiss cheese theorem) and then failed to raise the alarm immediately after. He should have turned the boat around, and if unable to recover the guy or the body then set the EPIRB of immediately. Then he should have remained in the area until impractical. His bad decisions afterward will seem indifferent to value of life and I think he will be found partially liable. If there was a gun on board utlimately the victim was really only a danger to himself. Its a shame because the guy really committed suicide.
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Old 28-12-2018, 19:49   #25
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Re: Lost crew captain charged

So those of you saying to setoff the EPRIB, is this to assist in rescuing the MOB or an attempt to cover your ass by appearing to do as much as possible? Would you make the same decision if instead of being 200 miles offshore you were a thousand miles offshore? If you were Master of a frieghter offshore would you also use the EPRIB?
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Old 28-12-2018, 19:50   #26
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Re: Lost crew captain charged

Sounds fishy to me. Even though VHF radios are line of sight, the Coast Guard has high antennas and radios that can pickup and talk to vessels more than 200 miles away. How else do they hear vessels far out in the Bearing Sea? In the PNW, I often have heard the CG talking to vessels more than 200 miles out on VHF.

Besides not doing a proper search, the captain could have activated an epirb, shot flares that might have attracted other vessels, and should have stayed in the area until he did contact another vessel that could relay a report.
The boat wasn't a square rigger rounding Cape Horn 150 years ago with no hope of turning around in heavy seas.
If you activate an epirb, one of the first things you'll see is a CG plane that can communicate with VHF. And if I was on a ship, and couldn't communicate another way, I'd activate the epirb.
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Old 28-12-2018, 20:00   #27
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Re: Lost crew captain charged

If the EPIRB was the only method to raise the alarm yes.



As soon as the epirb was pulled a long distance aircraft would have been scrambled, instead of the next day. Cruise speed of a C130 is 290 Knots and would have been overhead within 41 minutes from departure. There is a chance the aircraft may have located MOB or his body. I would have pulled the EPIRB as soon as losing sight of MOB.


Case Closed, he is at least partially liable, certainly worthy of trial.
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Old 28-12-2018, 22:45   #28
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What I do not understand is why the captain would think that a 4th, totally unknown to them, crew member was needed? I've crewed on that run but going north a few times and 3 competent persons crew beats 3+X number of unknown anytime. Just sleeping better knowing a proven crew member is on watch, albeit longer or more frequent one, is so much more restful.
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Old 28-12-2018, 22:49   #29
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Re: Lost crew captain charged

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If the EPIRB was the only method to raise the alarm yes.



As soon as the epirb was pulled a long distance aircraft would have been scrambled, instead of the next day. Cruise speed of a C130 is 290 Knots and would have been overhead within 41 minutes from departure. There is a chance the aircraft may have located MOB or his body. I would have pulled the EPIRB as soon as losing sight of MOB.


Case Closed, he is at least partially liable, certainly worthy of trial.
And if you were 1,000 offshore you'd also pull the EPRIB?
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Old 28-12-2018, 22:55   #30
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Re: Lost crew captain charged

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So those of you saying to setoff the EPRIB, is this to assist in rescuing the MOB or an attempt to cover your ass by appearing to do as much as possible? Would you make the same decision if instead of being 200 miles offshore you were a thousand miles offshore? If you were Master of a frieghter offshore would you also use the EPRIB?
Interesting question, I still think I would. 1000nm from shore I would expect radio contact from plane or ship not a dedicated visit. I would not be expecting the cavalry to come over the horizon and pluck him from the ocean for me. That only leaves one reason. I guess I would do it to cover my ass and the slim chance a plane might spot something but I realize the odds.
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