Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-09-2015, 19:49   #46
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: LED Bulbs Invalidate Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltyhog View Post
Did you ever get your Lopolight issues worked out?
They sent me replacements, and I sold the boat. So it's "worked out" as far as I am concerned
__________________

__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-09-2015, 21:09   #47
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: LED Bulbs Invalidate Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
two points:

(1) A particular fixture is certified with a specific bulb (usually branded by the fixture mgf like aqua signa) If you use ANY other bulb (like a west marine store brand),even an identical looking incandescent that might (or might not) have come off the same chinese production line, then in theory you don't know if you are in compliance or not. It might not have exactly the same intensity or color or location.

(2) When we all discussed this exact same question a number of years ago, I took a soft white LED bulb and an aqua signal standard bulb and a fixture to the naval academy and had some cadets test them. The LED bulb was significantly brighter than the incandescent. The LED colors where well within the specified color spectrums. There was a hair more 'bleed over' between the color sectors but not enough that it could cause any significant real world misinterpretation. I personally was quite satisfied with its light performance. Unfortunately it also produced RF noise, so I later stopped using it and switched to a different fixture/led combo that did not produce RF noise

I suggest you try again. The RF noise is not an issue with high frequency PWM. I have these in all fixtures and have problems only with my 800 lumen deck lighting and only where the fixture is close to the VHF antenna.

I controlled the bleed-over by adding dividers in the Aquasignal tower. The bulb is Marine Beam with red, green, white LED emitters potted in a machined aluminum case. The proper color emitters yield a brighter output in each sector.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF8630.jpg
Views:	59
Size:	412.1 KB
ID:	109127   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF9467.jpg
Views:	66
Size:	407.6 KB
ID:	109128  

__________________

__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 01:28   #48
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Enkhuizen, NL
Boat: Pearson 36-1
Posts: 330
Send a message via Skype™ to George DuBose
Re: LED Bulbs Invalidate Insurance

I have LEDs in every fixture on Skylark, except the steaming light. None of them get hot. Maybe a little warm when they have been on for hours.

I replaced the tungsten festoon bulbs in all my Perko fixtures with LED festoons, the tungsten bulbs were melting the plastic lenses.

While the Perkos are not even legal in the EU, I don't count on other boats seeing me. I count on the watchstander seeing the other boats.

Radar, AIS...MK1 eyeball and a sharp lookout are the most reliable.
__________________
George DuBose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 02:31   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Falmouth, UK
Posts: 169
Re: LED Bulbs Invalidate Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearless Friend View Post
Haven't bought one yet but intend to. Might be of interest, and might not.

w.boatlamps.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d175.html
I note the very honest footnote they've added:

In common with other replacement LED lamps on the market, it is not possible to have any sort of marine authority certification for individual replacement bulbs. These LED lamps are easily visible at distances exceeding 3nm in standard fixtures and are the brightest replacement LED bulbs available. Given the vast array of navigation light fittings installed on marine vessels,it is the user's decision alone whether to use this product to retrofit any particular light fitting used for navigation purposes.
__________________
wiekeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 02:58   #50
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,726
Re: LED Bulbs Invalidate Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by George DuBose View Post
I have LEDs in every fixture on Skylark, except the steaming light. None of them get hot. Maybe a little warm when they have been on for hours.

I replaced the tungsten festoon bulbs in all my Perko fixtures with LED festoons, the tungsten bulbs were melting the plastic lenses.

While the Perkos are not even legal in the EU, I don't count on other boats seeing me. I count on the watchstander seeing the other boats.

Radar, AIS...MK1 eyeball and a sharp lookout are the most reliable.
If you don't count on other boats seeing you, and if this means it doesn't matter how well your nav lights function, then why do you even turn the nav lights on?

What would you think if the owners of other vessels took the same approach?
Two vessels run on such principles meeting on a dark night sounds like a recipe for trouble to me.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 05:58   #51
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: LED Bulbs Invalidate Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
I have these in all fixtures and have problems . . . . . . only where the fixture is close to the VHF antenna.

The bulb is Marine Beam with red, green, white LED emitters . . . . .
Yea, the RF was only a problem for my tricolor, right next to my VHF antenna. And yes, the Marine Beam 3 color bulbs do produce RF - I did test them. They were the last drop-in bulb I tried.

I eventually switched to this for the tricolor: LED Navigation Lights by Optolamp Boating Gear fit for the King. Used by vendee globe boats. Extremely well made and zero RF noise.

For my bow lights I dislike the Aqua signal fixtures as they get water intrusion and corrode inside (during heavy blue water use), and had to be replaced about every 3 years (the stern light did not have this problem). So led bulbs in them does not solve that problem. I switched to sealed led fixtures there. (Lopo's, which originally had a design failure and died - were replaced for free and seem like perhaps they fixed the design, but I sold the boat before doing another long passage).

Edit: quite honestly looking at my long list of product failures here, using some of the top brands . . . It really is an amazingly crap industry for a required and certified "safety" product.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 07:01   #52
Registered User
 
rendern's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Maryland
Boat: Mainship 390
Posts: 14
Re: LED Bulbs Invalidate Insurance

I read through this thread and something that should be mentioned regarding replacing incandescent bulbs with LEDs behind colored lenses seems to be missing. I read that when replacing incandescents with LEDs for use behind a colored lens, it is important to use the "warm white" LEDs instead of the "cool white" LEDs, because the former maintain the chromaticity that is generated by an incandescent behind the colored lens. Doing this should keep you within COLREGS specs.
__________________
rendern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 08:25   #53
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: LED Bulbs Invalidate Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Don't think so. Provided that your vessel was "legal" and in this case that means that the lights produced an intensity and field of view as required by the col regs (or equivalent enabling legislation) then there is no basis for rejecting an insurance claim, at least in the civilised world.
Neither do.

I but I do think that what I think and what an insurance company "thinks" can be two different things. And since in case of a claim I am the one who hopes for them to pay the money, I would not bet my top dollars on them using my reasoning for their making decisions on what is best for their company.

To add to the apparent confusion, I am not insured. But I am glad there is a discussion as knowing is better than not knowing, even when we know that some will resolve to act upon their knowledge while others will not.

Big hug,
b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 08:35   #54
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: LED Bulbs Invalidate Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post

(...)

2W, which if you use 12V means .6 amp.

(...)
2/12=.17?

For reference, our tri-colour LED bulb burns 0.2A at 13.5V making it a roughly 2.7W unit.

It does not get hot at all. Warm perhaps.

We have a tri-colour LED inside of a tri-colour fitting (the fitting was designed around a filament bulb). Colours are great, visibility is great but green/red separation could be better imho.

I have not made any heeling tests, these could be interesting too.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 09:15   #55
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
Re: LED Bulbs Invalidate Insurance

This whole question of USCG certified lights is a red herring. Read the regulations! There is no such thing as a USCG certified navigation light. The Manufacturer certifies to the Coast Guard that their lamps meet the regulatory requirements by submitting test data to the coast guard. The Coast Guard does not certify anything. Furthermore Boat manufacturers must certify to the Coast Guard that the lights as installed meet the visibility requirements required by the regulations and only at the time of manufacture and it only applies to lights installed at the factory. Once the original lights are replaced then there is no certification at all. Since no light or fixture lasts for ever almost every boat out there over a few years has non-certified navigation lights. There is no proceedure what-so-ever for a private owner to certify their own installation of replacement navigation lights. Even if you replace like for like in the same mounting holes the lights are not certified. Does this mean that Insurance won't pay if you had to replace your running light fixtures...I don't think so. What are you supposed to do scrap your boat when the running light fixtures go bad because there is no procedure to certify replacement light fixtures?
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 14:29   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Boat: Catalina 400 MkII
Posts: 17
Re: LED Bulbs Invalidate Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryon View Post
Ever hear of infrared LEDs? That's exactly what they do, generate heat.

Every light device will have a characteristic wavelength signature. Incandescent bulbs use filters because they emit a broad spectrum. LEDs can be tuned to a much narrower spectrum, and don't need filters. Remember, you're not coloring the light with filters, you are removing unwanted wavelengths instead.

IR LEDs don't produce heat (other than as unwanted energy waste) they did produce infrared light. It is the IR light energy being absorbed by what strikes it that creates the heat.




Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
insurance

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LED Bulbs Polarity Sensitive Ron_Fran Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 4 14-07-2008 18:06
LED bulbs for nav-lights… dcstrng Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 5 12-06-2008 12:35
LED bulbs irwinsailor Marine Electronics 51 18-11-2007 13:41



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.