Leaving the USA

[bobnlesley]

Originally Posted by savoir

The US doesn't issue a zarpe.

We (British Flagged) have left mainland US for foreign parts three times now and irrespective of what the regulations might say, it seems that talking also to others, our experiences have been fairly typical.

If you're anticipating returning to the US before your current Cruising Permit/Licence expires, then you need to surrender it and get it cancelled - it seems this often doesn't work/gets lost in the system - otherwise, just lift your anchor and sail away; though we, as a matter of courtesy have invariably telephoned the local 'US Pleasure Vessel Reporting Location' to tell them we're on our way.

As noted, there is no exit paperwork/zarpe issued and certainly the Bahamas, Cuba and BVIs aren't concerned about you arriving without one, though in 2015 when we thought we might possibly be heading for Mexico, the Homeland Security guys at Key West Airport were happy to provide us with a suitable document; probably the one mentoned earlier, as it did seem to be more suited to a commercial vessel.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by DavidLGCrawford

I have tried to contact US CBP but am unable to reach them.

1. How do we go about checking out of the US on our Canadian sailboat? We are leaving Florida for the Bahamas.

2. My son is leaving the US on a different sailboat and heading directly to the USVI. Does he need to check out before he leaves? The boat he is on is US registered and owned.

It is weird not to clear out but there is a very good reason for it: They don't know you've actually gone. In an airport it's a secure zone so they know u have left and check the manifest of the plane at the end of its flight to ensure you're out of the USA.

So for boats:
* you do not clear out
* you do not cancel etc your cruising permit
* you do not get a Zarpe.

YOU JUST GO.

That's the way the USA wants it, that's the way you should do it.

With my Cruising Permit I do ring the CBP area I am in via the normal national switchboard phone number given to all foreign boats and say "I want to notify you I am leaving the USA today", they note it without comment and I note the dudes name and the time of the call. It doesn't suspend or cancel the Cruising Permit and its actually not required. That's just for the Cruising Permit, nothing to do with customs or immigration.

Yes, it seems weird when you clear into the next country and they ask you for "clearence from your last port" and you say 'I dont have one' and the room *freezes*! <insert sound effects, holsters unclipping, handcuffs clicking>
Then you say "my last port was the USA" and the room lets out its breath and moves again, stamps thumping passports.

My rule for the US: do what they want. Don't try to get a departure stamp because they don't want you having one.

Mark

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

It doesn't suspend or cancel the Cruising Permit and its actually not required. That's just for the Cruising Permit, nothing to do with customs or immigration.

Mark

That is precisely the problem. Customs, Immigration and USCG (who issue the cruising "License") are technically all one. i.e. Homeland Security. They are not playing well together and often operate under different interpretations of the same rules (or sometimes don't even know their own rules).

It's their country and they have the right to determine their rules and I try very hard to comply. I've been in and out of the US every year since 1994 and this year has been a very different experience. The rules (such as they are) seem to be being applied much more rigorously than in the past. It has been confusing, time consuming and expensive.

So far I've been told that I must check in to each sector office, must check in at each port, must check in at each "stop" (including anchoring in the Georgia swamp. I even got a written "Notice of Violation" for not reporting in before my anchor was set in the Hudson River. Upon inspection of my "Cruising License" one customs officer said "That's not a cruising license" where did you get that ?

My Cruising License says in paragraph 1 that under the license I am "Permitted to arrive at and depart from any port in the United States without ..... obtaining or delivering permits to proceed". Paragraph 2 says the opposite ..... "Upon arrival at each port or place in the United States, the master shall report the fact of arrival to the designated Customs and Border Protection Officer at the nearest port of entry. Such report shall be made immediately upon arrival" . Choose your own preferred paragraph :

These conflicting statements have been in the cruising license as long as I can remember but this is the first year since 1994 I have experienced their enforcement (erratic as it may be).

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by savoir

When I last departed the US from Honolulu customs declined to give me one. They said form 1300 was only for commercial vessels. . . .

Page 2 of the form (aka the back if you print 2 sided as implied several places on page1) has a list of vessel types, 2nd from bottom in right column is "yacht".

The form is primarily geared for commercial vessels but covers all vessels.

[DavidLGCrawford]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

This is incorrect, read your cruising license and the documentation that came with it. This is all defined in the CFR's. Your cruising license must be surrendered if you leave US waters.

We just got a hold of CBP in Jacksonville, where we got our cruising permit. They said we don't need to do anything, we can just leave. In fact we can then come back in and out as we please while our permit is valid. Once our permit expires we would need to check back in again when returning.

I am not saying you are wrong, in fact, what you said makes sense (I haven't got my permit out to read it so I'll accept your statement). I'm just reporting what we were told this morning.

Once again, they really don't seem to know what they are doing.

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

My Cruising License says in paragraph 1 that under the license I am "Permitted to arrive at and depart from any port in the United States without ..... obtaining or delivering permits to proceed". Paragraph 2 says the opposite ..... "Upon arrival at each port or place in the United States, the master shall report the fact of arrival to the designated Customs and Border Protection Officer at the nearest port of entry. Such report shall be made immediately upon arrival" . Choose your own preferred paragraph :

These conflicting statements have been in the cruising license as long as I can remember but this is the first year since 1994 I have experienced their enforcement (erratic as it may be).

I don't think that "without . . . obtaining or delivering permits to proceed" and "report the fact of arrival" are contradictory at all.

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

This is incorrect, read your cruising license and the documentation that came with it. This is all defined in the CFR's. Your cruising license must be surrendered if you leave US waters.

From the CBP website:

"Under CBP policy, non-U.S. residents are not eligible for successive cruising licenses. A new license will not be issued unless the following two conditions have been met: (1) at least 15 days have elapsed since the previous license either expired or was surrendered, and (2) the vessel arrives in the U.S. from a foreign port or place. (Customs Directive 3130-006A) CBP will want to see foreign clearance paperwork as evidence that you are arriving from a foreign location.

Non-residents are cautioned to plan carefully so that the mandatory 15-day period does not fall in the middle of a planned stay in U.S. waters. It may make sense to surrender your cruising license to a CBP Officer when you leave U.S. waters and then obtain a new one when you re-enter the U.S. Traveling outside of U.S. waters while your cruising license is still in effect does NOT fulfill the 15-day requirement."

Note the "it may make sense to surrender"; clearly not required.

[MarkJ]

Boatpoker

Just one v minor bit to clarify: the Cruising Permit is not issued by the USCG. It's issued by Customs because its basically a bit of paper to avoid paying customs duties.

For the other point on where a private boat must report in... I had difficulties with this in 2012 sailing south from NYC to Florida in the ICW.

Its really each new customs area defined by a port of entry so the New York dudes said only report in once per state because,NY is 1 'port of entry'. But by the time u get to Florida every friggin estury, bay, river, creek or mudhole on the sidewalk is a port of entry!

But all in all their system has been ok for me.

Mind you, it will take exactly one ratbag to make them change the law to something really stupid, like Cuba, China, Indonesia, Ecuador, and a myriad of other countries.

(Indonesia took FOUR DAYS to clear in and 2 days to clear out!!!)

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Boatpoker

Just one v minor bit to clarify: the Cruising Permit is not issued by the USCG. It's issued by Customs because its basically a bit of paper to avoid paying customs duties.

For the other point on where a private boat must report in... I had difficulties with this in 2012 sailing south from NYC to Florida in the ICW.

Its really each new customs area defined by a port of entry so the New York dudes said only report in once per state because,NY is 1 'port of entry'. But by the time u get to Florida every friggin estury, bay, river, creek or mudhole on the sidewalk is a port of entry!

But all in all their system has been ok for me.

Mind you, it will take exactly one ratbag to make them change the law to something really stupid, like Cuba, China, Indonesia, Ecuador, and a myriad of other countries.

(Indonesia took FOUR DAYS to clear in and 2 days to clear out!!!)

My "Cruising License" (Not "permit" ) is as you state headed 'US Customs and Border protection" but it is issued by the USCG in Ogdensburg NY.

The confusion and contradictions pointed out by other posters, within the various US government websites, their own paperwork and the incredible variety of differing instructions from various officers strongly suggests the system is broken ... but then it is government bureaucracy, what else can you expect whether Canadian, American or any other bureaucracy.