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Old 28-11-2010, 08:14   #31
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Her head was bobbing around too much for me to listen to what she was saying. She needs to relax. Poor thing. This issue needs to be told by Al Gore!
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Old 28-11-2010, 08:25   #32
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Her head was bobbing around too much for me to listen to what she was saying. She needs to relax. Poor thing. This issue needs to be told by Al Gore!
Maybe Al Gore and Sarah Palin could do a movie together? If that doesn't solve the problem I don't think anything can

Just as a working title:-

"I can see North Korea out of my back passage"
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Old 28-11-2010, 11:04   #33
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Oh Boy! Now this thread is turning political! Who'd of thought of that?



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Old 28-11-2010, 12:32   #34
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If you would like to see "International Law" of the sea lok inti thw UN Convention on Law of the Sea known as UNCLOS. For a start try UNCLOS - Table of Contents
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Old 28-11-2010, 13:40   #35
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OK, I started to watch this presentation, and 3 minutes 20 seconds into it the presenter mentioned that the laws for dumping trash from ships get progressively more lax at greater distance from land (this is of course true), and then she says "and so we have garbage patches twice the size of Texas" (inexact quote). I hit the Pause button.

I hate this cr*p!!! If you expect me to believe anything you say, I suggest that you avoid the obvious falsehoods, fabrications, and distortions. This "Texas-sized" patch had been pretty thoroughly debunked -- and now it's "twice the size"??? And consists of trash dumped from ships???
Just google "sea garbage patch". There's lots of pretty pictures. And words. The Wikipedia description indicates why it can't be seen from space. Should we believe everything we read? No. But why are so we so quick to discredit something unpleasant and believe cr*p just because it sounds nice? Cheers,
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Old 28-11-2010, 14:16   #36
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Just google "sea garbage patch". There's lots of pretty pictures. And words. The Wikipedia description indicates why it can't be seen from space. Should we believe everything we read? No. But why are so we so quick to discredit something unpleasant and believe cr*p just because it sounds nice? Cheers,
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Bill, I've googled this plenty. I've sailed/motored through what should have been ground zero (in the NE Pacific). I've talked with lots of others who have also sailed in the area.

What you find in google is perhaps 50% hyperbole, and includes misleading photos (for example, a guy in a kayak in the middle of a landfill dump, cropped to imply he was in the middle of the pacific).

It can't be seen from space, yes, I know that, and have read all the explanations. It can't be seen from five feet off the water either, unless you are talking about the occasional bit of floating trash. One sailor I've spoken with did see an area with significant floating debris, but it was hardly Texas-sized -- a few acres, perhaps. The towed net expeditions seem to be the best way to get a handle on the truth of the situation, and the results (that I've seen) so far haven't been particularly spectacular.

Trash in the ocean is a bad thing. Trash on the beach is bad too. I'm hardly going to argue with that.

But the presentation I was asked to watch starts off with the woman making obviously wrong or misleading statements, either because she is ignorant of the truth, or because she is using misleading hyperbole to to stir up interest in her cause.

When people try this on me I tend to ignore them. When the topic is one that I actually care about, I get upset by this behavior. Ultimately, you don't help your cause by lying about it. At least that's what I would like to believe.
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Old 28-11-2010, 14:30   #37
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Ok.... lets just all pull up charts of Ocean currents... if you look carefully and do some long range calculations you'll see that 99.9% of all flotsam eventually ends up washing ashore somewhere... or it becomes waterlogged and sinks..... even the Sargasso Sea has its own cleansing mechanism... weed dies, decompose's and sinks opening up areas that purge themselves of flotsam with currents...
I'm not saying there's not a lot of crap out there...
I'm not saying its ok to dump out there....
But to state that there's Islands of Plastic stranded for eternity in the middle of Oceans is a fabrication for the uneducated majority
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Old 28-11-2010, 14:35   #38
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Just google "sea garbage patch". There's lots of pretty pictures. And words. The Wikipedia description indicates why it can't be seen from space. Should we believe everything we read? No. But why are so we so quick to discredit something unpleasant and believe cr*p just because it sounds nice? Cheers,
Bill
Ok, I did. There really aren't any pictures of a garbage patch of any significant size. Sure, there is evidence that there is some garbage floating in the Ocean, but nothing to indicate it is the size of Texas.
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Old 28-11-2010, 14:53   #39
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I think it's safe to say that Gjerde isn't a scientist but rather a lawyer. Facts aren't necessarily a lawyers domain, by which I don't mean to imply that truth is any less important to a lawyer then anyone else but where as a good scientist should proceed with an open mind, a good lawyer proceeds with a result in mind.

To me it seems clear that the oceans need protecting. It isn't, in my opinion, a question of freedom either; freedom doesn't mean the person with the lowest moral standing and biggest bank roll gets to screw the rest of us. If we want a world with healthy, abundant seas then someone has to see that they are protected and the only way it will happen is if nations look beyond the stewardship of their own borders.
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Old 28-11-2010, 17:17   #40
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Hmmmmmm.... I'm not convinced either way - and I find it curious (about me) that I'm more inclined to accept an allegation of Texas-sized detritus than not. Why is that? Have I become a reverse skeptic? There's so much evidence of Corporate/Government cover up about garbage that I guess I'm more likely to believe that. Sad. I accept that anecdotal evidence is weak - I'll look into it further (as time permits) and see if there's any scientific consensus. Cheers,
Bill
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Old 28-11-2010, 19:34   #41
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Well, land or sea, it's ultimately about being a good custodian.

Mo TED. (there's an entire ocean series) This guy's a National Geographic shooter.



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Old 28-11-2010, 20:33   #42
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More about the Texas Trash Island...

Sorry to be a smartass, but here are the tracks of my eastern pacific crossings, during which I saw no high concentrations of surface trash. The northern tracks pretty well cover the area of the gyre:


Texas is shown for scale.
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Old 28-11-2010, 21:00   #43
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That's encouraging Paul.

I got this from my first google of "garbage at sea"

Researchers set sail for the Great Pacific Garbage Patch - San Jose Mercury News



I'd love it if it's all a horrid hoax.
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Old 28-11-2010, 21:16   #44
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More goodness....



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Old 28-11-2010, 21:36   #45
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I worry about crabs.... never had em... never want em.....
Slow to find this discussion, but still hee hee hee . . . . . you are naughty.
Thanks, I needed a giggle.
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