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Old 02-04-2011, 02:05   #1
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Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

OK, so every time I see a thread 'US Registered', 'UK Registered' etc, I wonder, what will happen with ours? I always just assumed we'd sail off on our Kuwait registered boat (yacht?) and have a certain immunity from pirates with it being a Middle East Flag!

However, what will happen long term? Once it's registered in a country, can't it just stay registered there for ever?

Incidentally, I'm British; HWMO is German; and the boat is a Concept 40 (better known as Kalik 40); built in Korea in 1982.
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:58   #2
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Re: Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

Saucy,
We had our boat in Dubai for 12 years, at one stage we had to take out a local reg. but we did not tell them about our UK reg. When we left, just threw away our Dubai papers!
Contact Jersey(UK) and try and register with them, then do the same as us, we have not had any problems, do get a departure (last port of call) paper as you leave, it dosn't mater that you changed registration enroute. Good luck, how long have you been in Kuwait?
We did 24yrs in Dxb!! (paid for the boat though)
moggie
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Old 02-04-2011, 03:29   #3
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Re: Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saucy Sailoress View Post
However, what will happen long term? Once it's registered in a country, can't it just stay registered there for ever?
I have no idea. Have you read your registration papers? or spoken to the Kuwaiti ship registry to find out what the rules are?

My bet is that Registration has an expiry date (Annually? 5 or 10 years?).....and that renewal is conditional upon residency - which at the moment is not a problem, but once you leave may be. After your registration lapses somewhere it drops off the registry and becomes an un-registered vessel. Plusses and Minuses to that.

Given you are a British Citizen you could personally register the boat in Jersey (i.e. no company required). But that would be Part 1 and would require a tonnage survey and proper paperwork (upside is registration lasts for 10 years and no licencing requirements for boat or skipper) - and you would need a person resident in Jersey to act as an Authorised Representative.....a few people around here who do that. Not me though - well, not at the moment.

Alternatively (and the easiest / cheapest) would be to reside in the UK just long enough to get the boat on the SSR.........
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Old 02-04-2011, 04:32   #4
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Re: Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

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Alternatively (and the easiest / cheapest) would be to reside in the UK just long enough to get the boat on the SSR.........
As a British citizen isn't it just enough to have a British address to get the SSR. I thought residence requirement was for non British nationals.
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Old 02-04-2011, 04:49   #5
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Re: Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

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As a British citizen isn't it just enough to have a British address to get the SSR. I thought residence requirement was for non British nationals.
True and I wouldn't advocate breaking the law on a public forum like CF. However, if it was my boat I would follow DOJs advice, use a family UK address during a trip home and register the boat on the SSR, but send the registration form from the UK, Kuwait stamps on a letter might give the game away.

Buy a red duster and sail out of Q8.

Since both you and hubby are members of the United States of Europe, you might need to put some dosh aside if you plan to stop in the EU for import duties. We are all broke here, so rich ex-pats are a good target for any EU customs officers looking to meet the monthly targets.

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Old 02-04-2011, 05:05   #6
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Re: Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

Ok, so that rules Europe out.
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Old 02-04-2011, 05:17   #7
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Re: Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

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Ok, so that rules Europe out.
Their might be one exception, something called chattels, which allow you to come home with your possessions. Whether it can apply to a boat I don't know.

The UK customs website is quite good for searching on importing stuff.

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Old 02-04-2011, 05:20   #8
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Re: Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

Quote:
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As a British citizen isn't it just enough to have a British address to get the SSR. I thought residence requirement was for non British nationals.
No. The UK Govt treats everyone in the world equally. So being a British Citizen doesn't get you any advantages. You just get to pay for anyone who turns up in the UK as if they too had been / will be contributing to the pot for generations. You may have read in the press over the last few years how that is turning out


Registering craft on Part III Small Ships Register (SSR)

Part III is a simple and cheap form of registration that proves a boat’s nationality. If your pleasure craft is under 24 metres you can register with Part III of the UK Ship Register. Registration costs 25.

Eligibility to register
In order to be eligible, all owners must be resident in the UK for 185 days of the year and be one of the following:
  • British Citizen
  • non-UK citizens exercising their EU right of freedom of movement or worker’s right for establishment
  • British Dependent Territories Citizen
  • British Overseas Citizen
  • British subject under the British Nationality Act 1981
  • British National (overseas) under Hong Kong (British Nationality) Order 1986
  • Commonwealth Citizen not falling within this list
Part III registration is not for:
  • companies
  • fishing vessels
  • submersible ships
  • boats 24 metres or over in length
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAn...raft/DG_180594
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Old 02-04-2011, 13:11   #9
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Re: Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

As long as the registration is the proper international type (for any country) it is OK. Maybe you will get an inquisitive look from an official now and then but I would not expect any trouble.

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Old 02-04-2011, 13:51   #10
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Re: Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

You may be ok... (as to not having to pay European VAT) Read the customs website....

this is the relevent portion I think from HM Revenue & Customs my bold to highlight:

"4.11 Are there any additional requirements if I am transferring my residence to a place in the EU?
If you are moving your normal home from a non-EU country to an EU country, including the UK, you may import your vessel free of customs duty and VAT providing you:

have lived outside the EU for a continuous period of at least 12 months; and
have possessed and used the vessel outside the EU for at least 6 months prior to importation; and
did not get the vessel under a duty/tax free scheme (see below); and
declare the vessel to our officer; and
will keep the vessel in the EU for private use; and
do not sell, lend, hire out or otherwise dispose of the vessel in the EU within 12 months of importation unless you notify us first and pay duty and VAT on disposal.
If you purchased the vessel under a duty/tax free scheme in the vessel’s country of origin or departure, relief from customs duty and VAT will only apply if at the time you got the vessel you were:

a diplomat;
a member of an officially recognised international organisation;
a member of NATO or UK forces, or the civilian staff accompanying them, or the spouse of such a member; or
you can prove that duty and tax has subsequently been paid and has not been, nor will be, refunded.
Our officer will give you the form we require on your arrival. You should be ready to produce the vessel and all evidence of use and possession outside the EU such as registration papers and berthing fees. The rules regarding your ‘normal home ’ are complex. If you are in any doubt, please contact our National Advice Service or any of the offices listed in Section 7.

If you do not arrive with the vessel yourself, we will not normally release it until you arrive. However, we may release it for storage under certain conditions. You should contact us for details of these arrangements.

If you import a vessel under temporary importation conditions (see Section 5) and then decide to move your normal home to the UK, you may still apply for Transfer of Residence relief."
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Old 02-04-2011, 14:47   #11
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Re: Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

I used that those circumstances to import a tax free car from Germany some years ago, under the NATO Forces Act or what ever it's called. However, Customs and Excise at the port of Hull (UK) were determined I should pay the duty. Despite being first of the ship they kept me back until the last of the 1000 cars had been unloaded, then put the thumb screws on. After several hours they eventually admitted defeat and off I drove, but they did their level best to try and extract 2k of duty from me. Seems they were jealous that I could have a new tax free car and they couldn't.

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Old 02-04-2011, 15:40   #12
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Re: Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

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must be resident in the UK for 185 days of the year
So I wonder then what the legal status of any Brit who is circumnavigating if they take more than half a year to do
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Old 02-04-2011, 16:11   #13
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Re: Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

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So I wonder then what the legal status of any Brit who is circumnavigating if they take more than half a year to do
then they have to fulfil the following upon return: (from HM revenue site, see the detailed post above...)

"<snip>...have lived outside the EU for a continuous period of at least 12 months; and
have possessed and used the vessel outside the EU for at least 6 months prior to importation; ... <snip>"


I would strongly suggest to talk to a British Consul ahead of time, and print out a copy of the exact HM documents ....

Customs officers are far easier to work with when YOU do the work ahead of time... of course NEVER doubting their competency.... saying such things as "I am sure you have this memorised, but I do not, so this is why I brought the printout and letter from consul....."

Speeds things up and lets them feel good that no one is evading responsibility.....
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Old 02-04-2011, 16:28   #14
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Re: Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

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"<snip>...have lived outside the EU for a continuous period of at least 12 months; and
have possessed and used the vessel outside the EU for at least 6 months prior to importation; ... <snip>"
I wish Australian customs was so nice. I have not lived there for 13 years and they will still want to fleece me if I bring anything fun whenever I move back
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Old 02-04-2011, 16:51   #15
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Re: Kuwait Registered Boat: Circumnavigation

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I wish Australian customs was so nice. I have not lived there for 13 years and they will still want to fleece me if I bring anything fun whenever I move back
Usually in most countries, personal goods are allowed as part of a return or legal immigration. The goods have to be used and owned for a period of time ranging from 6 months to 2 years...

In Australia, they appear to have a similar policy with some caveats...

You Must have owned the item for 2 years....
If motorised it has certain length and breadth limitations....

Nothing on NON MOTORISED VESSELS... apparently...

This is for Unaccompanied Personal Effects UNACCOMPANIED PERSONAL EFFECTS.

There is also a Word Doc here: http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/re...13July2010.doc

I am sure that there is something about accompanied personal effects...

From the documentation I do not know if they are allowing ALL non motorised boats in with no duty (So I guess this is when you remove the propeller from the shaft, and just call the engine thing a 'generator'...

But.. I am sure there is a way.....

Talk to your friendly consul..... and lawyer...

Best,
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