Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-06-2015, 13:49   #1
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,726
Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

I'm not sure whether this was discussed on CF or not, but there is a tragic case which is relevant to our recent discussions and the COLREGS obligation to keep a "proper lookout": http://www.southamptonvts.co.uk/admi...Orca_Flyer.pdf

The full MAIB report is really instructive: https://assets.digital.cabinet-offic...ort10_2015.pdf


This happened just last year, off Felixstowe in the North Sea.

The skipper of the yacht went below for just a moment to take a leak.

The dredger, which was only 1.6 miles away when the skipper of the yacht went below, altered course and ran down the yacht. The skipper's wife and dog were killed. The skipper survived -- barely.

Neither vessel was keeping a "proper watch" when the accident happened, with tragic results.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2015, 13:58   #2
Registered User
 
Muckle Flugga's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Aboard the Ocean wave
Boat: 55' sloop.
Posts: 1,426
Re: Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

Had not seen this. Thanks for posting. Terribly sad. Rule 5 is absolutely the MOST important of the COLREGS.
__________________

__________________
‘Structural engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand into shapes we cannot precisely analyse as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess in such a way that the public at large has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance.’
Muckle Flugga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2015, 14:06   #3
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,726
Re: Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
Had not seen this. Thanks for posting. Terribly sad. Rule 5 is absolutely the MOST important of the COLREGS.
Who out of us doesn't go below for a minute to take a leak, or make a cuppa? There but for the grace of God go I . . .

This case is deeply disturbing.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2015, 14:24   #4
Registered User
 
Muckle Flugga's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Aboard the Ocean wave
Boat: 55' sloop.
Posts: 1,426
Re: Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Who out of us doesn't go below for a minute to take a leak, or make a cuppa? There but for the grace of God go I . . .

This case is deeply disturbing.
Indeed, luck is a component in any success. The trick is to woo her effectively. Unusually this involves being surprisingly boring. And, you know, I've never understood the (otherwise rather lovely) "but for the grace of God" thing, as it implies that while that grace saved "I", it really screwed the other bugger!
__________________
‘Structural engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand into shapes we cannot precisely analyse as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess in such a way that the public at large has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance.’
Muckle Flugga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2015, 14:56   #5
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,726
Re: Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
. . . . as it implies that while that grace saved "I", it really screwed the other bugger!
Exactly!!!
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2015, 15:33   #6
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Who out of us doesn't go below for a minute to take a leak, or make a cuppa? There but for the grace of God go I . . .

This case is deeply disturbing.
I don't go below if something is that close. Plus my AIS alarm should sound
__________________
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2015, 16:30   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Oyster 66
Posts: 973
Re: Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

What a tragic fug up.

Gormless pilotage on the dredger, awful procedures and systems in dealing with a blind spot on the bridge and no use of radar alarms. Inexcusable.

The poor yacht skipper thought they were safe, but they were near danger. It was not a time to take a pee.

Blame for what little my opinion is worth: 90% to the dredger 10% to the yacht. 100% to a sloppy safety culture.

Be safe everyone.
__________________
poiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2015, 17:11   #8
Eternal Member

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 848
Re: Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

Quote:
Originally Posted by poiu View Post

The poor yacht skipper thought they were safe, but they were near danger. It was not a time to take a pee.
No need to go below to take a leak, either...

About a buck @ Harbor Freight, attach a lanyard to be able to toss it over the side to rinse... Doesn't get much simpler than that...

__________________
Jon Eisberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2015, 17:36   #9
RTB
Registered User
 
RTB's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Home port Kemah, TX Currently in Brunswick Georgia
Boat: Hunter 36
Posts: 1,509
Images: 2
Re: Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

The 5 minute absence by the captain of Orca was a bit long for a pee, no?

Ralph
RTB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2015, 17:52   #10
RTB
Registered User
 
RTB's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Home port Kemah, TX Currently in Brunswick Georgia
Boat: Hunter 36
Posts: 1,509
Images: 2
Re: Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
I don't go below if something is that close. Plus my AIS alarm should sound
No AIS on my boat, but interested. Does the AIS alarm go off due to proximity only? Or would it go off once a collision was imminent due to Shoreway's course change. The vessels were only 1.6 miles apart when Orca's skipper went for a piss.

Ralph
RTB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2015, 18:04   #11
Registered User
 
Viking Sailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: Fantasia 35 - s/v Feeling Good
Posts: 1,074
Re: Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

This report is total crap!!!

The dredger OOW failed to "clear" his intended course. This is such a basic function that not performing it should be considered total incompetence. It doesn't mater what type of vehicle you are maneuvering - be it a vessel, plane, or car - before making a turn you make sure that you aren't going to hit anything.

The fact that the dredge OOW was actively maneuvering his vessel places full burden
of his actions on him and no one else. If he had performed the most basic of seaman like actions there would not have been a collision.

Paul
__________________
Viking Sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2015, 18:52   #12
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,329
Re: Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

Very sad. As with most accidents, a lot of errors all round. Once again the holes in the swiss cheese aligned with tragic results.

And yet one error seems to saved the skippers life; his lifejacket failed to auto-inflate (see section 2.7 of full report).

There are no certainties in life and at the best we can only minimise the risks, not eliminate them.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2015, 02:38   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Oyster 66
Posts: 973
Re: Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

Why didn't the report say that orca might have had radar or AIS equipment? If it had been fitted, it would certainly have been a contributory factor that it wasn't turned on. It would most probably have saved them.

I don't like compulsory anything, but there is a lot we have to do that is compulsory, particularly with safety equipment on Red Flag boats over 13.7m, so why not add this kit to the list and for smaller boats too like Orca? This was not the first nor will it be the last tragic accident that such equipment can protect from.

An analogy in aviation: Aircraft have transponders, which work a bit like AIS. All planes in controlled airspace near airports have to use one. About half of England is controlled airspace.
__________________
poiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2015, 03:01   #14
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,653
Re: Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

If you want to remove all risk in life, then I guess we could stay locked in the house. Well until that Tornado or earthquake hits. What bothers me is the knee jerk reaction to legislate after every accident as if all accidents can be prevented if we only mandated and passed the right laws. We all know that single handing is dangerous...so why not ban it? Why not make it illegal? Because there is there is this little thing called Freedom and assumed risk.
__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2015, 03:02   #15
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,726
Re: Keeping a Proper Lookout -- A Cautionary Tale

Quote:
Originally Posted by poiu View Post
Why didn't the report say that orca might have had radar or AIS equipment? If it had been fitted, it would certainly have been a contributory factor that it wasn't turned on. It would most probably have saved them.

I don't like compulsory anything, but there is a lot we have to do that is compulsory, particularly with safety equipment on Red Flag boats over 13.7m, so why not add this kit to the list and for smaller boats too like Orca? This was not the first nor will it be the last tragic accident that such equipment can protect from. . . . .
I think that a requirement that we broadcast AIS is inevitable. This will certainly help safety, but will also allow us to be tracked everywhere, all the time . . . That being said, I have a "transmit off" switch on my AIS which I've never used . . .


Whether AIS would have helped Orca or not is doubtful. One of the main points here is that the accident happened in broad daylight and good viz, and everyone was relaxed. The dredger had a perfectly good radar return from Orca. But the OOW wasn't watching it.

In the place where this happened, I would have had all my guard zones and AIS alarms switched off, because in the approaches to a port like here, the alarms will drive you crazy. SOP for me in such a place is to go to a higher state of watchkeeping constantly looking out visually and watching the instruments. But SOP for me allows me to go below for a pee (not for 5 minutes, but still). I would like to think that I wouldn't do it while another vessel was 1.5 miles away, but if it were apparently following a channel, and I were outside the channel, apparently well clear? Hmm.

This really shook me up. Maybe AIS alarms could be set with different parameters in ports, rather than switching them off. That can't be done easily on my system.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rope

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Catamaran: Cautionary Tale for Wannabe Cruisers Jane.Joy Classifieds Archive 118 08-10-2013 10:59
A Cautionary Tale Jolly Roger General Sailing Forum 26 25-04-2013 19:53
A cautionary tale: Or trip report of Bellingham to Astoria. s/v Beth The Sailor's Confessional 3 06-06-2012 16:21
A Cautionary Tale Godwits Meets & Greets 21 06-12-2010 10:48



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:47.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.