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Old 03-03-2013, 08:40   #61
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

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Originally Posted by kthoennes View Post
Sure, marriage carries a pile of practical and legal implications, but if any of that is on your mind when you jump off the cliff, you're missing what marriage is all about. Talk about "missing the boat...". Boy the cynics on here.
You can turn this argument on its head however. If you need some official ceremony or paper to confirm your commitment to your spouse, maybe you're missing some point too...

I am not married my current partner. I wasn't married to my previous one either, even though that one really lasted "till death do us part".
For me commitment doesn't need any official sanction. So going to the town hall and getting a paper confirming what I and my partner already know and feel isn't high on our priorities list. We do joke about it a lot though.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:41   #62
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

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So much for tradition and purpose. Cheaper than a real branding iron, though.
And fortunately less permanent.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:46   #63
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

KVB-
Does Switzerland not have any laws regarding "common law marriage" ? In most of the west, if you have been cohabitating with someone for seven years, you may be married, whether you realize it, want it, or not.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:03   #64
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

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Wives change names in (most) western cultures because you're one family now, together, one unit.
Wives change their names in most common law jurisdictions, but in civil law jurisdictions the principle is that the name you are born with is the name you die with. Women can use their husbands name in social situations (and many do) but on their passport and ID they will have their birth name. And afaik the standard EU passport does not mention marital status...
So name change upon marriage is certainly not universal in western culture.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:17   #65
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

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Boy, all this cynicism and this preoccupation with just the practical implications are really awful. Isn't anybody on here just married for crazy love? Wives change names in (most) western cultures because you're one family now, together, one unit. Tax implications, medical determinations, property distribution - yeah yeah yeah, blah blah but ultimately none of that makes any difference at all. I'm married because I love my wife, we're one family now, bonded, two halves of one unit. The institution hasn't lasted throughout human history just so spouses can keep each other's junk when they croak. Sure, marriage carries a pile of practical and legal implications, but if any of that is on your mind when you jump off the cliff, you're missing what marriage is all about. Talk about "missing the boat...". Boy the cynics on here.
I don't want to get into a fight, but you are simply incorrect when you say "The institution hasn't lasted throughout human history just so spouses can keep each other's junk when they croak." In actual fact (google is your friend ) marriage has been more about distributing "stuff" than any other reason. This includes the ownership of people (i.e. wives).
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:12   #66
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

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I don't want to get into a fight, but you are simply incorrect when you say "The institution hasn't lasted throughout human history just so spouses can keep each other's junk when they croak." In actual fact (google is your friend ) marriage has been more about distributing "stuff" than any other reason. This includes the ownership of people (i.e. wives).
Well, I'm not getting cranky and picking a fight either, the world can think whatever it wants and it won't make any difference to my marriage so I'm really not getting worked up about this, but that assertion is just not true. That mindset is just another product of this culture, where marriage is all about practicalities and legalities. We pay attention to all the political marriages of royalty throughout history as if that's representative of broad humanity. In fact (google is your friend) in lots of places in history women couldn't inherit at all, went to the sons, so wives keeping the junk had little to do with it. It's love, it's family, it's children (for those who are so lucky), it's making a deep connection with another human in our time on earth to enrich our lives in ways nothing else can, a companion by your side battling the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, to know and be known, to bring you a cup of coffee as you sit by the fire in your old age, one person who remembers that scary sail in a storm with you.

What really surprises me here is that you'd think sailors, being all one with nature and breaking the molds, feeling all those strong connections to the lofty moments in life when the lee rail is buried in the water and life is so intensely good -- you'd think of all people, sailors (sailers?) wouldn't talk about marriage in terms of whether you can share a hotel room in Dubai, or my wife can drag the boat home when I keel over at the helm. Again I'm not saying that marriage isn't loaded with practical and legal angles, heck, I'm a court administrator in real life, those issues keep me and the court staff employed every day as people battle when it goes badly -- but that's an unfortunate, accidental result, that was never the intent of any of them or they wouldn't have gotten married in the first place. This culture must be spiritually flat and dull and dead if we now think marriage is all about health benefits and medical arrangements and financial transactions and tax filing status and write-offs and inheritance.

Ugh, what a cynical and materialistic and legalistic and deadly practical (and sadly deeply pervasive) attitude our culture has developed on marriage. As if millions of destitute peasants insisted on getting married across thousands of years because they needed to make sure their castles and estates (which probably consisted of a bowl a wooden spoon) stayed in the family. Empty, empty, empty. As if the Song of Solomon was written because he really wanted to keep all his crap in the family when he died. Like my great grandparents were married for 67 years because my great grandad wanted to share his employee health benefits and he needed somebody to decide when to pull the plug in this hospital, and they shared a name so he could brand his wife with a mark of ownership like one of his cows. I thought most of the "urinating in the sink" thread was really juvenile and disappointing (unless we're all 8 year old boys who like potty jokes), but to me this thread is far worse, it's a huge reflection of emptiness.

Sheesh. Well, that feels better.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:16   #67
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

...and with the POWDER vested in me, I pronounce you... Mauritz
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:08   #68
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

If travelling to countries where there are forced hereditary laws why not have the boat and other important items put in a trust where you are both beneficiaries so if one dies there is no inheritance involved as the ownership papers just show the trust, which usually has a life span of 120 years and in some legislations perpetuity. This also avoids any death duties and inheritance tax, which could be a real issue if the boat was in the multi 100's of thousands price range.

The trust grants both beneficiaries the right to captain the boat.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:58   #69
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

Depending on the laws in the country you reside in there can be heavy tax implications as well as control of assets. For example, I'm a Canadian so if/when I die if we still have our boat then that asset would immediately go into my estate which would be probated by the state. There are fees associated with this as well as time delays and the possibility that the estate might be contested by family members.
If on the other hand the ownership was jointly held and properly registered as such with Canadian Shipping Authorities then upon my death my wife would have full control of the boat and could do exactly what she wanted to do with it because it would be transfered to her immediately and would not be tied up into my estate.
Married or not married if the title is held jointly then the results are the same.
This is not something that you can put in your will or write up yourself, it has to be properly registered. Any country that had the British Rule of Law as their base can expect the same situation.
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:12   #70
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

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Hello all,

Slightly weird topic but I was wondering if it's easier to sail the world as a couple if you're Married?

I've been with my Partner for over 15 years now but we never got married.
In terms of ease of passage around the world will this be a problem? Is it easier to be married?

Regards,
Simon

You mean, "is it easier than traveling with my concubine" Let me ask the boss.

I would think this is an issue if something bad happens. The spouse will have rights and capabilities a friend will not. You might be denied access to hospital visitation for instance. Many other legal type things are made easier with the documents.
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Old 03-03-2013, 21:20   #71
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

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I would think this is an issue if something bad happens. The spouse will have rights and capabilities a friend will not. You might be denied access to hospital visitation for instance. Many other legal type things are made easier with the documents.
Things are easier with the right type of documents. I'm not convinced however that a marriage certificate in a language not understood outside my home country will be of much use here...
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Old 03-03-2013, 21:37   #72
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

If your spouse dies when you are in a foreign country, which inheritance rules are applied? The ones in the country where you happen to be at the time, the ones of your country of citizenship, or your country of residence?

Rules vary from country to country. In Switzerland for example a spouse does not automatically inherit everything from his/her deceased partner...
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Old 03-03-2013, 21:46   #73
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

Legal marriage is a legal contract with specific terms and conditions. Amazingly, though, people are allowed to get married without knowing what those terms are, or even knowing that there is an implicit contract.

In essence, a marriage (devoid of a modification agreement) is a contract to share property, and to raise children together. The other rights and obligations are (for the most part) secondary to those.

In this context, the "sharing property" issue is the important one - that each of you have equal rights to access and control property in an emergency situation - such as the ones previously mentioned.

Marriage is cheap. Divorces are expensive. The cost of divorce is why (IMHO) so many people today are not getting married. Most of the time, we only think about the obligations of marriage, not the privileges. In our modern western society, the value of marriage has faded dramatically, and government and institutional procedures are being rewritten very quickly to account for that.

But it won't be like that everywhere. If you need access to cash, or to make decisions for an incapacitated partner, or simply want to ensure that you will be welcome to share a bedroom without raising controversy among your potential hosts, then being legally married will be very valuable.

Being married has no material downsides that I know of except a narrow tax window that penalizes married couples, and that the cost of divorce (should it come to that) can be very high.
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Old 03-03-2013, 22:06   #74
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

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KVB-
Does Switzerland not have any laws regarding "common law marriage" ? In most of the west, if you have been cohabitating with someone for seven years, you may be married, whether you realize it, want it, or not.
Switzerland is a "civil law" country, so the only marriage recognised as such is the one performed by a civil servant at the local registry.
So this means that in our town getting married means going to a boring office building in the suburbs and standing in line...
So you maybe understand why marriage doesn't have that many romantic connotations to me.
However, if you live together you do get a lot of the benefits married people get. My pension fund will pay a "widows" pension to my partner for example. All I have to do is inform them who my partner is. When I underwent surgery she could be present when I woke up, the hospital didn't make the slightest fuss about that.
We joke a lot about getting married. We do discuss it in earnest sometimes too. We've agreed that if we ever do, we will just keep it simple, ie. head over to the registry office and get over with it. But we also agree that it would only make sense if one of us also became materially dependent on the other. As things stand now it wouldn't make a difference for us, except increase our tax bill.
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Old 03-03-2013, 22:18   #75
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Re: Is it easier to be Married?

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Ugh, what a cynical and materialistic and legalistic and deadly practical (and sadly deeply pervasive) attitude our culture has developed on marriage. As if millions of destitute peasants insisted on getting married across thousands of years because they needed to make sure their castles and estates (which probably consisted of a bowl a wooden spoon) stayed in the family.
Marriage historically used to be a contract between families. It was a materialistic, legalistic and deadly practical institution. For centuries "destitute peasants" only could marry of their lord (their de facto owner) approved. Cohabitation without being officially married was thus quite common among the masses in the middle ages...
Love entered the equation with the advent of Christianity. The Church decreed that people should marry because of love, and also decreed that if people loved each other, and committed to each other and exchanged vows, even when no one was present, they were married.

So from this point of view, if you're in a committed relationship, you are already married.
It is my opinion that if you indeed think that marriage should not be about materialistic things, about legal and other practical consequences, but about, as you put it very nicely: "making a deep connection with another human in our time on earth to enrich our lives in ways nothing else can, a companion by your side battling the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune", than I wonder why I would need to get this (mostly useless) marriage certificate in addition.
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