Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-02-2013, 14:13   #31
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,670
Re: Is it easier to be Married?

Hi, everyone,

Jim and I cruised to Mexico and French Polynesia, both as "partners" and later, married. The difference I experienced at these destinations was that until we were married, I could not pick up his mail at the post office, either in Atuona or in Papeete. Not a biggie, right? Amongst cruisers, we were always accepted as a couple, and the lack of a ring was just not a big deal. It wasn't about jewelry.

Since then, there was a death due to crocodile attack in the Solomons, when, had they not been married, the wife would not have been able to have her husband's remains buried as she wished. And, as they were married, she was able to sail the boat back to Germany.

In another situation, an unmarried Frenchwoman's partner had a heart attack near Sydney, Australia. He died shortly after being hospitalized. She was left with no legal recourse whatsoever. His family wanted the boat--that had been her home--and as they were unmarried, she lost both lover and home. Now, I know there are fellows out there who feel really burned by women. But if you really like a woman enough to have lived with her for years, would you want to risk abandoning her to the same fate as this Frenchwoman suffered?

To the OP, I think you should discuss the issues with your partner, and together reach a decision. We all ought to decide for ourselves what fits us best.

Enjoy.
__________________

__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2013, 17:02   #32
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Is it easier to be Married?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Don-
At least in the US these days, you often have to present government photo ID in order to simply ENTER the premises, unless you are being carried in. So while matching rings are a nice thought, if the names on the IDs don't match...especially if there is a DNR or other form involved. Everyone in any "administration" is always happier when they can file more paperwork to justify what they did.
In some countries when married the names do not automatically match! Czech for one (she takes your surname, but it acquires a female form and slightly different spelling!)...... and Spain used to confuse me (but can't remember exactly why )
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2013, 17:06   #33
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,033
Re: Is it easier to be Married?

"In some countries when married the names do not automatically match! Czech for one (she takes your surname, but it acquires a female form and slightly different spelling!)...... "
I'd say they are not "the same" but they do in fact "match" if you consider that the locals know very well which transformation will take place on the name.

In the same way that Icelanders know that if your name is "Ericsson" or "Ericsdottr" your papa's first name had better be Eric.<G>
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2013, 17:31   #34
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Is it easier to be Married?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"In some countries when married the names do not automatically match! Czech for one (she takes your surname, but it acquires a female form and slightly different spelling!)...... "
I'd say they are not "the same" but they do in fact "match" if you consider that the locals know very well which transformation will take place on the name.
For sure the locals will know how it works - just not always when travelling abroad.......and also the reverse: "oh look, your name is exactly the same as your wife's - did you marry close family?!"
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2013, 17:47   #35
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Is it easier to be Married?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
David, I wrote testament (not will although you might use that term). Such a document should state that in the event of your incapacitation or death (incapacitation to be determined by your spouse/SO/girlfriend), the other one is appointed Captain of the vessel with all the rights and privileges pursuant to the title/position, including, but not limited to: transporting, or hiring others to transport the boat to any port of their choosing and/or, at their discretion, sale of the boat or parts thereof. Any and all proceeds from sale of boat or parts thereof become the property of the new captain.

Whilst the above is not written by a lawyer, it will stand up in most countries, simply because it clearly expresses the will of the owner/captain.
Although I think the above very prudent, nonetheless the point I was making that even if 100% legal, when abroad sometimes you do also have to prove these things locally - rather than simply your paperwork from "home" always being taken at face value, especially if it is unusual. Marriage is simple for officialdom to understand and accept.

In practice having physical possession of the boat and any paperwork (that says XX is ok to be using the boat) likely will mean no one will care enough to quibble / gives enough paperwork to get you away. Likely.

Quote:
The worst thing someone can do is sail without one. Entering port with:

1- a body - this will start any number of investigations and you can be damn sure you're going anywhere with the boat until everyone is satisfied.
2- no body, but minus one from the crew list. This will also get hoards of investigations started. Better to have a testament
3- an incapacitated captain - go to scenario 1 or 2 above. Boat going nowhere.

We have reciprocal agreements, including pictures, laminated so they can be copied if needed.

Personally I would not be so worried about arriving somewhere with dead partner / crew - most time on a boat will be spent moored, so likely any death will be after having checked in, and a good chance from the usual causes when ashore - and not always instantly.
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2013, 17:51   #36
Registered User
 
Jimbo485's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: some ocean down under
Boat: Kelsall Suncat 40
Posts: 1,247
In Spanish-speaking Latinamerican countries, neither party change their two surnames when married. Sometimes the upper crust wives in Chile might add "de Piñera" when married to Mr Piñera, but it reeks of ownership and is fading out. It creates lots of confusion when mixing with Anglo cultures for a range of reasons.
__________________

Jimbo485 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 06:48   #37
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Is it easier to be Married?

When Nic and I were together cruising I had her on the boats Registration papers as a Master. So if I died, heart attack, arrested, etc etc etc she would be allowed to sail the boat. Particularly important in countries where they don't respect women.
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 07:05   #38
Registered User
 
Tar34's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 291
Re: Is it easier to be Married?

How does the command structure stand up to "two Captains". There's your answer. As long as your partner is feeding into one's sense of adventure and energy level things will work out. Anything less, disaster.
__________________
Tar34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 07:19   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: WTB Lagoon or Leopard 38'-40'
Posts: 1,273
Re: Is it easier to be Married?

It's become very common for people are age to not get married - due in part to the trauma of discovering that our adolescent ideals of marriage were not true... another topic for another day, moving on...

I met a British couple in Barcelona recently who are recently married after 15 years together. My partner of 8 years and I had a nice lunch with them, and I broached the question after a bottle of good Spanish blanco - "Why did you get married after all those years together".

He thought a few moments and said "You know, after a while, all your reasons for not getting married just fade away."

What are your reasons for not getting married? Have they "faded away"?

I think that internationally, you will be less likely to be hassled if you are married. You will have inherent legal rights that are recognized around the world, in all languages and cultures. You could also simply TELL everyone you're married - I never heard of a hospital demanding a marriage certificate - but it is very common for people to assume that if you have the same address and last name on your identification, that you are married, and that you are not married if you do not have the same last name and address.

There are other ways to gain those same legal and implicit rights, but again the question...

Why not get married? Haven't those reasons "faded away" by now?
__________________
ArtM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 07:28   #40
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Is it easier to be Married?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
When Nic and I were together cruising I had her on the boats Registration papers as a Master. So if I died, heart attack, arrested, etc etc etc she would be allowed to sail the boat. Particularly important in countries where they don't respect women.
+1!

I think this and parallel solutions work best over wide range of cases.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 08:17   #41
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,033
Re: Is it easier to be Married?

"it is very common for people to assume that if you have the same address and last name on your identification, that you are married, and that you are not married if you do not have the same last name and address."
And with good reason, since statutory or common-law marriage both presume there will be some co-habitation going on, and if the spouses live in two separate residences, that's a bit less likely. Not impossible--just contrary to the usual point of marriage.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 09:02   #42
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Is it easier to be Married?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don L View Post
Once you check with her be ready for some extra husband training, as she will quickly know you lack of knowledge in the area.
She already knows this. Only married 35 years, so I'm still at rookie status.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 09:32   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Switzerland
Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
Posts: 1,241
Re: Is it easier to be Married?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"it is very common for people to assume that if you have the same address and last name on your identification, that you are married, and that you are not married if you do not have the same last name and address."
And with good reason, since statutory or common-law marriage both presume there will be some co-habitation going on, and if the spouses live in two separate residences, that's a bit less likely. Not impossible--just contrary to the usual point of marriage.
In the country where I grew up women don't change their names when they marry. The name you are born with is the name you die with (it requires an act of parliament to even change even something as trivial as the capitalisation of your name...) This is why I hate security questions like "what is your mother's maiden name". If you know where I grew up you can find that out easily.
My passport also does not list my address, and neither do my ID card or drivers' licence. These documents also do not list marital status.
It makes things complicated sometimes. My parents were once refused a shared room in Singapore.
So we can do what we've always done. Pretend to be married. Getting married for real would entail an significant increase in our tax bill, so that's why we haven't bothered with it so far.
__________________
K_V_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 09:51   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: WTB Lagoon or Leopard 38'-40'
Posts: 1,273
Re: Is it easier to be Married?

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
In the country where I grew up women don't change their names when they marry. The name you are born with is the name you die with (it requires an act of parliament to even change even something as trivial as the capitalisation of your name...) This is why I hate security questions like "what is your mother's maiden name". If you know where I grew up you can find that out easily.
My passport also does not list my address, and neither do my ID card or drivers' licence. These documents also do not list marital status.
It makes things complicated sometimes. My parents were once refused a shared room in Singapore.
So we can do what we've always done. Pretend to be married. Getting married for real would entail an significant increase in our tax bill, so that's why we haven't bothered with it so far.
As mentioned previously, there can be very major legal implementations for unmarried couples in certain "extreme" legal situations - such as death or serious illness. Other possible extremes include temporary situations like being physically separated with one person in custody of the boat, or legal situations like being able to bail someone out of jail.

The more I think about it, the day we move aboard together may be the day we get married. In fact, the uncertainty of that day is a significant part of the reason I am not yet comfortable getting married!

Ah, the CF ... so much self discovery in such an unlikely place! I think my wedding will take place on the trampoline of my catamaran. The guest list will be very limited.
__________________
ArtM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 10:16   #45
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,030
Re: Is it easier to be Married?

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
In the country where I grew up women don't change their names when they marry.
Well, having grown up in a culture where wives change their names fairly regularly, I've always thought of the whole thing as incredibly odd. How can you live for decades with one name, and then at the exchange of rings, be called something else? It must be a surreal experience...

My spouse of 25 years and I have managed to avoid the whole marriage thing so far, but we may walk down the aisle before we head off next year. The thing I wonder is, will it really make any difference? Neither she, nor I, will be changing our names, so will we really solve any potential problems? If someone, or some institution, was so bent out of shape over our lack of marriage, surely our lack of identical last names would still be a problem.

I have no problem telling people we are married ... we are, in all the ways it matters. We may even get rings. We also have all our assets, including the boat, in both names. All our files and papers always list both our names, and yes, our wills and boat papers will list us as equal owners and "captains".

Will being legally married really make any difference?
__________________

__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:57.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.