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Old 18-02-2013, 08:10   #31
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

I find now that I get better response on 13 or 11 these days or DSC

Dave
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Old 18-02-2013, 08:26   #32
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

AIS and working DSC is pretty rare among pleasure boats in the USA--at least here on the East Coast. You can travel from Maine to Florida and not hear a legitimate DSC call, except for false alarms.
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Old 18-02-2013, 08:30   #33
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

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AIS and working DSC is pretty rare among pleasure boats in the USA--at least here on the East Coast. You can travel from Maine to Florida and not hear a legitimate DSC call, except for false alarms.
well Rescue 21 was a bit of a fiasco, but in Europe DSC has be used for nearly 20 years now. ( with ATIS on the Inland Waterways). While I find I can call up teh Coastguard radio stations on 16 easily enough as most are still maintaining headset watches. I do find it harder to raise ships without an initial DSC call. ( maybe the alarm wakes up the bridge crew!).

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Old 18-02-2013, 08:33   #34
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

Nice citation, right chruch, wrong pew as they say.

the citation says "Voluntary vessels not equipped with DSC must maintain a watch on 2182 kHz and on 156.800 MHz "

Now the first question is what is defined as a voluntary vessel? And the immediate tip-off to anyone reading that should be the requirement to maintain the old HF radio watch on 2182 kHz which was NEVER reqiured of recreational sailors. First because it is not possible on a VHF, second because 2182 was obsoleted some years ago by international accord.

So, very nice citation, but now go find out what "voluntary vessels" are defined as. It ain't us little guys. And do check into why your citation is requiring a HF radio watch that has been formally obsoleted as well.

I'm sticking to "fairly tale", I haven't seen a valid citation otherwise.
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Old 18-02-2013, 08:40   #35
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I find now that I get better response on 13 or 11 these days or DSC

Dave
I use the routine DSC call function for radio checks with the UK Coast Guard. They are always very surprised when I call them this way -- I must be practically the only person who does it or even knows their MMSI numbers. But of course it is the most effective radio check you can do, because you check DSC comms as well as voice at the same time, plus you don't pollute Channel 16.

Whenever I discuss making routine DSC calls with other sailors, I am met with blank stares, whether they are UK or US sailors. I don't recall that I have ever met another sailor who is even aware of these functions. When cruising in company I always have to show the other sailors how to do it.

I have not tried it with commercial shipping, but I will soon have AIS installed so that it I will know their MMSI numbers. I reckon this should be one of the big benefits of AIS -- being able to communicate with a routine DSC call.


So unless Dave is talking about commercial shipping, he's somehow dealing with sailors on an entirely different level, than the ones I deal with. The sailors I know all hail on 16, then it's "Channel 69, going down, har har".

Interestingly enough, in the Solent teeming with hundreds of boats and ships at any given moment (or thousands on RTI race day), it is never hard to find a free channel. Less so than a couple of decades ago in Florida. And once you're out in the Channel, there's rarely much chatter aside from some VTS communication, some terse messages between commercial shipping, radio checks, and only very occasionally some bridge crew jabbering in Russian or Ukrainian on one of the intership channels, assuming no one understands them On calm days with not too hard sailing work to do, I sometimes put my VHF on scan mode to hear what's going on. But generally it's not much.

In coastal waters, at least around here, recreational sailors communicate predominantly with mobile phones, not with the VHF.

Lastly, I would like to say that radio procedure among recreational sailors is not dramatically better compared to in the U.S., despite the licensing requirements.
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Old 18-02-2013, 08:44   #36
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

Quote:
So unless Dave is talking about commercial shipping, he's somehow dealing with sailors on an entirely different level, than the ones I deal with. The sailors I know all hail on 16, then it's "Channel 69, going down, har har".
I was exclusively talking about ships. and yes as I said in another post , I find that I can still easily get coastguard radio stations on voice only. ( and often ships on 13)

Like you as far as the CG Radio goes they are always amused to get a DSC call from a yacht. !!

Quote:
Lastly, I would like to say that radio procedure among recreational sailors is not dramatically better compared to in the U.S., despite the licensing requirements.
As an instructor, Id have to disagree, The Carribean is easily the worst , Florida I heard some terrrible procedures. I do find European yachtsmen at least have a vague understanding of procedures and especially GMDSS as a result of taking in a tiny weeny bit of course learning!!
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Old 18-02-2013, 08:59   #37
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Nice citation, right chruch, wrong pew as they say.

the citation says "Voluntary vessels not equipped with DSC must maintain a watch on 2182 kHz and on 156.800 MHz "

Now the first question is what is defined as a voluntary vessel? And the immediate tip-off to anyone reading that should be the requirement to maintain the old HF radio watch on 2182 kHz which was NEVER reqiured of recreational sailors. First because it is not possible on a VHF, second because 2182 was obsoleted some years ago by international accord.

So, very nice citation, but now go find out what "voluntary vessels" are defined as. It ain't us little guys. And do check into why your citation is requiring a HF radio watch that has been formally obsoleted as well.

I'm sticking to "fairly tale", I haven't seen a valid citation otherwise.
Does this help? from the FCC site under the term: "Who Needs a Ships License?"

<START QUOTE SNIPPET>
Who Needs a Ship Station License
You do not need a license to operate a marine VHF radio, radar, or EPIRBs aboard voluntary ships operating domestically. The term "voluntary ships" refers to ships that are not required by law to carry a radio. Generally, this term applies to recreation or pleasure craft. The term "voluntary ships" does not apply to the following:
  1. Cargo ships over 300 gross tons navigating in the open sea;
  2. Ships certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to carry more than 6 passengers for hire in the open sea or tidewaters of the U.S.;
  3. Power driven ships over 20 meters in length on navigable waterways;
  4. Ships of more than 100 gross tons certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to carry at least one passenger on navigable waterways;
  5. Tow boats of more than 7.8 meters in length on navigable waterways; and,
  6. Uninspected commercial fishing industry vessels required to carry a VHF radio.
  7. Ships required to carry an Automatic Identification System (AIS) transceiver by the U.S. Coast Guard regulations enacted pursuant to the Maritime Transportation Security Act of 2000.

Ships are considered as operating domestically when they do not travel to foreign ports or do not transmit radio communications to foreign stations. Sailing in international waters is permitted, so long as the previous conditions are met. If you travel to a foreign port (e.g., Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands), a license is required. Additionally, if you travel to a foreign port, you are required to have an operator permit.

<END QUOTE SNIPPET>

Appears to be quite clear. This and the relevant 47 CFR 80.310 - Watch required by voluntary vessels

section appears to be unambiguous. Although I do not see a penalty for noncompliance.
Regardless. Keeping 16 on is a good idea and habit in my opinion.
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Old 18-02-2013, 09:08   #38
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

No that's not going to convince him, I posted a link to that back at post #26.

John


Quote:
Originally Posted by h20man View Post
Does this help? from the FCC site under the term: "Who Needs a Ships License?"

<START QUOTE SNIPPET>
Who Needs a Ship Station License
You do not need a license to operate a marine VHF radio, radar, or EPIRBs aboard voluntary ships operating domestically. The term "voluntary ships" refers to ships that are not required by law to carry a radio. Generally, this term applies to recreation or pleasure craft. The term "voluntary ships" does not apply to the following:
  1. Cargo ships over 300 gross tons navigating in the open sea;
  2. Ships certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to carry more than 6 passengers for hire in the open sea or tidewaters of the U.S.;
  3. Power driven ships over 20 meters in length on navigable waterways;
  4. Ships of more than 100 gross tons certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to carry at least one passenger on navigable waterways;
  5. Tow boats of more than 7.8 meters in length on navigable waterways; and,
  6. Uninspected commercial fishing industry vessels required to carry a VHF radio.
  7. Ships required to carry an Automatic Identification System (AIS) transceiver by the U.S. Coast Guard regulations enacted pursuant to the Maritime Transportation Security Act of 2000.

Ships are considered as operating domestically when they do not travel to foreign ports or do not transmit radio communications to foreign stations. Sailing in international waters is permitted, so long as the previous conditions are met. If you travel to a foreign port (e.g., Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands), a license is required. Additionally, if you travel to a foreign port, you are required to have an operator permit.

<END QUOTE SNIPPET>

Appears to be quite clear. This and the relevant 47 CFR 80.310 - Watch required by voluntary vessels

section appears to be unambiguous. Although I do not see a penalty for noncompliance.
Regardless. Keeping 16 on is a good idea and habit in my opinion.
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Old 18-02-2013, 09:18   #39
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

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Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
No that's not going to convince him, I posted a link to that back at post #26.

John
I saw your quote

I also saw his response claiming he did not see any definition for voluntary vessel . Hence the first reference from FCC defining voluntary vessel, followed by the relevant law again.....

That should be proof enough...

Interestingly, no penalties appear to be applicable for lack of keeping watch. I would presume that in the event of an accident it would not be good for the non watch keeping side.... yet...
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Old 18-02-2013, 09:24   #40
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Nice citation, right chruch, wrong pew as they say.

the citation says "Voluntary vessels not equipped with DSC must maintain a watch on 2182 kHz and on 156.800 MHz "

Now the first question is what is defined as a voluntary vessel? And the immediate tip-off to anyone reading that should be the requirement to maintain the old HF radio watch on 2182 kHz which was NEVER reqiured of recreational sailors. First because it is not possible on a VHF, second because 2182 was obsoleted some years ago by international accord.

So, very nice citation, but now go find out what "voluntary vessels" are defined as. It ain't us little guys. And do check into why your citation is requiring a HF radio watch that has been formally obsoleted as well.

I'm sticking to "fairly tale", I haven't seen a valid citation otherwise.

Here are the pews:

80.5 Definitions

(7) Voluntary ship. Any ship which is not required by treaty or statute to be equipped with radiotelecommunication equipment.

Now, before you argue about "ship", there is also a definition of ship:

Ship or vessel. Ship or vessel includes every description of watercraft or other artificial contrivance, except aircraft, capable of being used as a means of transportation on water whether or not it is actually afloat.

So, it would appear that 80.310 Watch Required by Voluntary Vessels applies to pretty much all craft fitted with a radio that works on the watch frequencies (so, if you have a radio with 2182 you have to watch it regardless of antiquation, same for VHF 16). However, Subpart X - Voluntary Radio Installations has this to say:

80.1153 Station log and radio watches.

(a) Licensees of voluntary ships are not required to operate the ship radio station or to maintain radio station logs.
(b) When a ship radio station of a voluntary ship is being operated, appropriate general purpose watches must be maintained in accordance with 80.146, 80.147 and 80.148.

the phrase "when a ship radio station of a voluntary ship is being operated" seems to indicate that a watch is only required when the radio is being operated, that if you are not operating the radio then a watch is not required. As with many things governmental, I see a direct conflict between 80.310 and 80.1153.
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Old 17-12-2014, 19:49   #41
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

Ha! it seems this old thread drifted into a debate between know-it-alls who really don't.


And getting back to the OP's question: Is anyone checking for these things in the Bahamas?
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Old 17-12-2014, 20:51   #42
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

I've been to the Bahamas twice in the past 2 years, and have never been asked for a VHF radio license.

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Old 17-12-2014, 21:10   #43
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

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Originally Posted by SailFastTri View Post
Ha! it seems this old thread drifted into a debate between know-it-alls who really don't.


And getting back to the OP's question: Is anyone checking for these things in the Bahamas?
Probably not. But the letter of the law is that if a US flag boat has a device that radiates RF (e.g. VHF, HF SSB, Radar, or AIS) and operates the vessel in the jurisdiction of a country other than the US it must have a ships license issued by the FCC. And each operator must have a Radiotelephone license. There is no test. The FCC regulation is a requirement of international treaty.

One minor point of correction from earlier in this thread, all boats with MF/HF SSB radios require an FCC ships license even if only operated in US territorial waters.

The horse's mouth is here: FCC: Wireless Services: Ship Radio Stations: Operations
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Old 17-12-2014, 21:28   #44
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

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And getting back to the OP's question: Is anyone checking for these things in the Bahamas?
No....
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Old 17-12-2014, 21:43   #45
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Re: Is FCC Registration Required in Bahamas for VHF Radio ?

it is obvious the authorities have done a very poor job to clearly communicate the requirements to the general recreational boating public since a number of "knowledgable" sources do not quite agree here. I think the majority of the forum members are pretty intelligent and yet do not fully understand. We do have both a ships license and an operator license and working thru the federal web site was not easy. It they are going to charge those significant fees, the least they can do is make a easy to navigate web site with clear requirements and directions of what to do.

So if I as a "voluntary" vessel am supposed to monitor 16, is that day and night while anchored or only while underway? How about during the lightning storm when a lot of people disconnect their radios? Seems the same people who wrote these regulations also did those for cruising in Cuba...a lack of common sense.
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