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25-05-2010, 17:11
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California Coast
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 331
Posts: 681
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Great idea!
I would be most appreciative of your time and effort to conduct a daily colregs study group! I am definately into it.
Thanks, Liam.
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25-05-2010, 17:12
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#47
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john
What nobody has brought up where a rowboat fits in yet? I've seen some intense arguments over that one.
John
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The only collision I ever had was between a canoe and a +50m superyacht I was taking thru the cut between Lake Union and Lake Washington.
The canoe T-boned me midships!
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25-05-2010, 17:27
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 853
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US Inland Rules and Federal Regulations only apply to the USA. Whereas Colregs are internationally recognised by the members of IMO. AS the USA is only one country out of some 170 other countries
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25-05-2010, 17:36
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#49
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
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I think Canada also has an agreement with the US on using their rules on the Great lakes
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25-05-2010, 17:54
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic
I think Canada also has an agreement with the US on using their rules on the Great lakes
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True, that would be a Canadian rule. Made by a Minister of the Canadian government.
Welcome the discussion on :-
" Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972 (COLREGs) -- as amended.
Many other countries make rules and regulations regarding the use of vessels on their inland waters, that is a subject which could be discussed separately ?
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25-05-2010, 18:14
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john
What nobody has brought up where a rowboat fits in yet? I've seen some intense arguments over that one.
John
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Rule 18 does not mention vessels under oars. Although I have had someone argue that they are propelled by machinery, the oars being levers.
Jack
__________________
CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
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25-05-2010, 18:21
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic
I think Canada also has an agreement with the US on using their rules on the Great lakes
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There are Canadian modifications for the Great Lakes. For example:
Quote:
In the waters of the Great Lakes Basin, a special flashing light
shall be exhibited at the forward end of a vessel or vessels being
pushed ahead, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph
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I think that this is close to the Inland Rules, but I do not think we have ceded sovereignty on the ColRegs.
__________________
CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
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25-05-2010, 18:32
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40 (sold). Still have a Hobie 20
Posts: 2,944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic
The only collision I ever had was between a canoe and a +50m superyacht I was taking thru the cut between Lake Union and Lake Washington.
The canoe T-boned me midships!
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If that happened where the Montlake cut opens onto Union Bay at the University of Washington, then that is where they rent canoes out of the same building where my sailing club is based. They rent canoes to the general public and most are heading across the ship canal to the arboretum on the other side.
John
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25-05-2010, 19:09
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: At the intersection of here & there
Boat: 47' Olympic Adventure
Posts: 4,852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale
Rule 18 does not mention vessels under oars. Although I have had someone argue that they are propelled by machinery, the oars being levers.
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Rule 25 states a vessel under oars can be lit as a sailboat, so I think the implication is that they have a similar level of manoeuvrability; this of course does not help to sort out who gives way when a sailboat meets a rowboat. We should probably think about it and discuss it with Rule 18 when we get there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale
There are Canadian modifications for the Great Lakes. For example:
I think that this is close to the Inland Rules, but I do not think we have ceded sovereignty on the ColRegs.
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The Canmods state specific rules that are applicable only in the Great Lakes; iirc Inland rules also have some specific to the Great Lakes and Western Rivers.
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25-05-2010, 19:15
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodesman
The Canmods state specific rules that are applicable only in the Great Lakes; iirc Inland rules also have some specific to the Great Lakes and Western Rivers.
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They also make reference to "roadstead, harbour, river, lake or inland
waterway". Outside of these the 72 ColRegs apply, for example, Georgia Strait.
__________________
CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
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25-05-2010, 20:31
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: At the intersection of here & there
Boat: 47' Olympic Adventure
Posts: 4,852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale
Outside of these the 72 ColRegs apply, for example, Georgia Strait.
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Other than the small portion around Point Roberts that is US waters where 72 Colregs are in effect, Georgia Strait is mostly Canadian waters and Canmods apply.
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25-05-2010, 20:58
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,252
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The Canmods apply in roadsteads (anchorages), harbours, rivers, lakes and inland waterways, in the Great Lakes Basin or other specified waters. Georgia Strait is none of these.
__________________
CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
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25-05-2010, 21:41
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#58
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john
If that happened where the Montlake cut opens onto Union Bay at the University of Washington, then that is where they rent canoes out of the same building where my sailing club is based. They rent canoes to the general public and most are heading across the ship canal to the arboretum on the other side.
John
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You are right... 2 Japanese guys who were just shoved off and had no idea how to paddle
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26-05-2010, 04:02
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#59
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
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Rules 4 & 5
PART B. STEERING AND SAILING RULES
Section 1. Conduct of vessels in any condition of visibility.
Rule 4
Application
Rules in this section apply in any conditions of visibility.
These rules are applied even if the other vessels are only detected on radar or by sound.
Rule 5
Lookout
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and or the risk of collision.
Before, this was covered under Seamanship but in 1972 the new Rule 5 places greater emphasis on this most important aspect of collision avoidance.
Probably the most hotly contested part of Court cases.
What are the duties of a lookout?
Where should a look out be stationed?
What does “all available means appropriate” mean to the Courts?
What does “full appraisal of the situation” mean to the Courts?
What about anchor watch?
Ok Wotname… we are ready for your comments
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26-05-2010, 04:26
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#60
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Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic
.................
Lookout
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and or the risk of collision.
Before, this was covered under Seamanship but in 1972 the new Rule 5 places greater emphasis on this most important aspect of collision avoidance.
Probably the most hotly contested part of Court cases.
What are the duties of a lookout?
Where should a look out be stationed?
What does “all available means appropriate” mean to the Courts?
What does “full appraisal of the situation” mean to the Courts?
What about anchor watch?
Ok Wotname… we are ready for your comments
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Thanks for the invitation... ... ...
I know I am about to be shot down by many but here goes anyway.
What does " appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions" mean especially to the single hander?
Many say single handers fail rule 5 but I suggest that sleeping is a natural human condition (in response to tiredness) and as such, it is a legitimate "prevailing circumstance and condition" that will occur in lengthy solo voyage.
Therefore providing the single hander employs all available means (e.g. electronic alarms; ensuring sleep times aren't conducted in busy areas or frequently used shipping lanes; hearing), then rule 5 is has not been violated.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
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