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Old 09-07-2010, 20:04   #256
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Originally Posted by Healer52 View Post
Clear as mud, but a vessel at anchor is by definition not able to maneuver freely.
While I agree that that an anchored vessel is not able to maneuver freely, under the Colregs they are different in definition (an anchored vessel is attached to the seabed, and all other vessels are not with the arguable case of a vessel aground) and responsibilities.
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Old 09-07-2010, 20:34   #257
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OK, so what rule defines the correct pattern for a sailboat anchored in the fog's horn? Bell?
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Old 09-07-2010, 23:03   #258
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Colregs Sounds at Anchor

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Originally Posted by Healer52 View Post
OK, so what rule defines the correct pattern for a sailboat anchored in the fog's horn? Bell?
Pertinent parts of the rules have been underlined at the bottom of this post.

Let's assume a 10m boat.

Under rule 33b (Colregs and US Inland rules) she is required to carry a means of making an efficient sound signal but not necessarily one that complies with Annex III. Let's say she's carrying a 'horn'.

Under rule 35g generic anchored vessels are required to rapidly ring bell for 5s at 1m intervals (plus gong if over 100m), with an optional whistle blast of short-long-short, presumably just before or after bell ringing.

Under rule 35i an anchored vessel under 12 is exempted from 35g but shall make an efficient sound signal at not more than 2m intervals, no pattern specified.

I think the that short-long-short on a horn would be acceptable to meet 35i. However the 35g says short-long-short can be used in addition to the bell signal perhaps implying that it may only be used in addition to and not on its own, but then we're back to what kind of a sequence would be appropriate for a horn alone. On another hand, a short, long, short is also "some other sound" (35i) as well. s-l-s is the only whistle/horn pattern I could find for anchoring. Any pattern not specified in the rules has the potential to create confusion if vessels underway hear it but don't know what to make of it if it is not recognizable as having a specific use.

Do people have an opinion as to whether short-long-short on a horn/whistle can only be used with a bell or is it open to use on its own? Is there a widely used alternative that is not in the Colregs?


Rule 32
(a) The word "whistle" means any sound signaling appliance capable of producing the prescribed blasts and which complies with the specifications in Annex III to these [Regulations / Rules].
(b) The term "short blast" means a blast of about one second's duration.
(c) The term "prolonged blast" means a blast of from four to six seconds' duration.

Rule 33
(a) A vessel of 12 meters or more in length shall be provided with a whistle and a bell [INLD], a vessel of 20 meters or more in length shall be provided with a bell in addition to a whistle [Intl], and a vessel of 100 meters or more in length shall, in addition be provided with a gong, the tone and sound of which cannot be confused with that of the bell. The whistle, bell and gong shall comply with the specifications in Annex III to these Regulations. The bell or gong or both may be replaced by other equipment having the same respective sound characteristics, provided that manual sounding of the prescribed signals shall always be possible.
(b) A vessel of less than 12 meters in length shall not be obliged to carry the sound signaling appliances prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule but if she does not, she shall be provided with some other means of making an efficient signal.

Rule 35: Sound Signals in Restricted Visibility
In or near an area of restricted visibility, whether by day or night the signals prescribed in this Rule shall be used as follows: (a) A power driven vessel making way through the water shall sound at intervals of not more than 2 minutes one prolonged blast.
(b) A power driven vessel underway but stopped and making no way through the water shall sound at intervals of no more than 2 minutes two prolonged blasts in succession with an interval of about 2 seconds between them.
(c) A vessel not under command, a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver, a vessel constrained by her draft, a sailing vessel, a vessel engaged in fishing and a vessel engaged in towing or pushing another vessel shall, instead of the signals prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule, sound at intervals of not more than 2 minutes three blasts in succession, namely one prolonged followed by two short blasts.
(d) A vessel engaged in fishing, when at anchor, and a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver when carrying out her work at anchor, shall instead of the signals prescribed in paragraph (g) of this Rule sound the signal prescribed in paragraph (c) of this Rule.
(e) A vessel towed or if more than one vessel is being towed the last vessel of the tow, if manned, shall at intervals of not more than 2 minutes sound four blasts in succession, namely one prolonged followed by three short blasts. When practicable, this signal shall be made immediately after the signal made by the towing vessel.
(f) When a pushing vessel and a vessel being pushed ahead are rigidly connected in a composite unit they shall be regarded as a power driven vessel and shall give the signals prescribed in paragraphs (a) or (b) of this Rule.
(g) A vessel at anchor shall at intervals of not more than 1 minute ring the bell rapidly for five seconds. In a vessel 100 meters or more in length the bell shall be sounded in the forepart of the vessel and immediately after the ringing of the bell the gong shall be sounded rapidly for about 5 seconds in the after part of the vessel. A vessel at anchor may in addition sound three blasts in succession, namely one short, one long and one short blast, to give warning of her position and of the possibility of collision to an approaching vessel.
(h) A vessel aground shall give the bell signal and if required the gong signal prescribed in paragraph (g) of this Rule and shall, in addition, give three separate and distinct strokes on the bell immediately before and after the rapid ringing of the bell. A vessel aground may in addition sound an appropriate whistle signal.
(i) A vessel of less than 12 meters in length shall not be obliged to give the above mentioned signals but, if she does not, shall make some other efficient sound signal at intervals of not more than 2 minutes.
(j) A pilotage vessel when engaged on pilotage duty may in addition to the signals prescribed in paragraph (a), (b) or (g) of this Rule sound an identity signal consisting of four short blasts.
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:19   #259
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The short long short (.-.) signal is specifically used for an approaching vessel - it's not sounded at intervals.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:24   #260
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Originally Posted by Lodesman View Post
The short long short (.-.) signal is specifically used for an approaching vessel - it's not sounded at intervals.
Which rule is that?
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:40   #261
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Which rule is that?
35(g) A vessel at anchor may in addition sound three blasts in succession, namely one short, one long and one short blast, to give warning of her position and of the possibility of collision to an approaching vessel.
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Old 10-07-2010, 16:50   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodesman View Post
35(g) A vessel at anchor may in addition sound three blasts in succession, namely one short, one long and one short blast, to give warning of her position and of the possibility of collision to an approaching vessel.

I took your original post to mean both vessels underway and approaching each other. Opps.

My reading of 35g is that you MAY sound the whistle all the time with the bell at anchor not just when you know another vessel is in the vicinity.
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Old 10-07-2010, 18:11   #263
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The rule states quite clearly that it's not one or the the other, but the whistle may be sounded in addition to the bell or bell and gong. There seems to me to be little point to sounding both at regular intervals. I would think also that particularly in a crowded anchorage, you would not want a lot of vessels sounding their whistles every minute. The rule also makes the caveat "to give warning of her position and of the possibility of collision to an approaching vessel" for the whistle signal but does not state it with the bell/gong signals. Whether it's interpreted that way or not, I feel it was the intention of the authors that the whistle be used as a sort of '5-short blasts' type of signal that could be used in this particular circumstance, knowing that the bell may not be heard until an approaching vessel is too close to avoid collision.
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Old 10-07-2010, 18:18   #264
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Whether it's interpreted that way or not, I feel it was the intention of the authors that the whistle be used as a sort of '5-short blasts' type of signal that could be used in this particular circumstance, knowing that the bell may not be heard until an approaching vessel is too close to avoid collision.
that makes sense.
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Old 10-07-2010, 22:32   #265
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The rule states quite clearly that it's not one or the the other, but the whistle may be sounded in addition to the bell or bell and gong. There seems to me to be little point to sounding both at regular intervals. I would think also that particularly in a crowded anchorage, you would not want a lot of vessels sounding their whistles every minute. The rule also makes the caveat "to give warning of her position and of the possibility of collision to an approaching vessel" for the whistle signal but does not state it with the bell/gong signals. Whether it's interpreted that way or not, I feel it was the intention of the authors that the whistle be used as a sort of '5-short blasts' type of signal that could be used in this particular circumstance, knowing that the bell may not be heard until an approaching vessel is too close to avoid collision.
The rule you reference is 35g which applies to vessels 12m and longer. My question is about a 10m vessel which is specifically exempted from having to have a bell by 35i.

I think the point of using the 'whistle' would be longer hearing range when not in a crowded situation, if you are on the edge of the crowd or if you feel the need for extra caution.

But then we go back to the question of what pattern to use for 10m boats that have a 'horn' (i.e. 'whistle' but not Annex III compliant) but not a bell. Rule 35i leaves open any random sound just so long as it is at maximum 2m intervals. One long(vessel nearing a bend or an area of a channel/fairway where other vessels may be obscured) or one short (I am altering my course to starboard) qualify as random sounds but suffer from potential confusion.

It occured to me that the 2m interval may be the only distiguishing factor from other whistle sounds at 1min, but 2min is only a maximum interval not a prescribed interval so a skipper near a channel may chose 1m or even 30s for safety reasons.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:29   #266
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The rule you reference is 35g which applies to vessels 12m and longer. My question is about a 10m vessel which is specifically exempted from having to have a bell by 35i.
Rule 33(b) exempts vessels under 12 m from having bells and whistles. Being exempt doesn't mean you can't use a bell, if you choose to do so.
Quote:
I think the point of using the 'whistle' would be longer hearing range when not in a crowded situation, if you are on the edge of the crowd or if you feel the need for extra caution.
Do you sound it before the bell? After? During? Surely not during as the whistle would drown out the bell. Seems like a big oversight to not specify that, especially since they are very specific about such things in other parts of the same rule (In a vessel 100 meters or more in length the bell shall be sounded in the forepart of the vessel and immediately after the ringing of the bell the gong shall be sounded rapidly for about 5 seconds in the after part of the vessel) If it was meant to be a longer range signal the rule would have specified that the whistle signal could be sounded instead of the bell(/gong) rather than supplementing it.
Quote:

But then we go back to the question of what pattern to use for 10m boats that have a 'horn' (i.e. 'whistle' but not Annex III compliant) but not a bell. Rule 35i leaves open any random sound just so long as it is at maximum 2m intervals. One long(vessel nearing a bend or an area of a channel/fairway where other vessels may be obscured) or one short (I am altering my course to starboard) qualify as random sounds but suffer from potential confusion.
Well you don't necessarily need to use the whistle - just make some other efficient noise. As I said before, you could crank the tunes on your upperdeck speakers. You could hang a large wind-chime or pipe a ring-tone to a loud-hailer (perhaps there's a creative way to use an IPod - or maybe there's an App for that ). If you choose to use your whistle, that should certainly be acceptable, but using one or two prolonged blasts (or any other described signal that could identify you as something other than an anchored vessel) would be contrary to the rules. The Romeo signal (.-.) would probably be acceptable; is your whistle programmed for it? Or would you like to sit there manually sounding it every couple of minutes?
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Old 11-07-2010, 14:09   #267
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So the concensus seems to be that if you are under 12m, at anchor, in fog and only have a horn, then blowing a short-long-short pattern every 2m or less is least confusing and probably fine legally unless you run into an official who is a real stickler so you have to argue with him and later maybe an admiralty court. Nobody brought up rules other than 33 & 35 so I am assuming they are the only ones that cover this specific situation.

I am going to cease CPR and let this thread die again.
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Old 11-07-2010, 14:18   #268
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I think I'll have a suitable jazz trumpet solo recorded, and broadcast it on the hailer at 2 minute intervals....

Or maybe something military....Boots and Saddles? Maybe the opening from "Star Wars"....odds are nobody else will be using it.
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Old 11-07-2010, 18:04   #269
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I think I'll have a suitable jazz trumpet solo recorded, and broadcast it on the hailer at 2 minute intervals....

Or maybe something military....Boots and Saddles? Maybe the opening from "Star Wars"....odds are nobody else will be using it.
That will make it easier to find your boat when you're coming back from the pub
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