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Old 01-06-2010, 21:39   #136
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Ahhh understood. Just when you said "log on Star Gazer" I thought you were talking about a program or website. Yes, logging course and speed changes, as well as changes in visibility, is a good practice.
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Old 01-06-2010, 22:00   #137
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When can a speed be judged as being “too low” for the prevailing conditions?
Maintaining steerage way is a situation in which too slow can get you into trouble. I was following the "haste makes waste" axiom bringing a full keel boat into a marina. When I turned the tiller to enter the slip, the boat went straight and I had do some fending off. Regaining steerage way was not easy.

Also in heavy winds, additional power may be required to bring the bow up and through the wind. When docking into a stiff breeze, more speed may be required to both get into the slip and maintain steerage.

Any others?
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Old 01-06-2010, 22:21   #138
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Any others?
How about running with a current? Your SOG could be quite high even if you are at bare steerage, which is measured through the water. The effect is amplified when downriver traffic meets upriver traffic.

Brett
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Old 01-06-2010, 22:27   #139
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How about running with a current?
Brett
Of course. I am usually watching the speed on the knotmeter and the shore in the that scenario. But I will check the SOG to verify my calculations of the current.
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Old 01-06-2010, 23:16   #140
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Laidback... would love to hear the details.... I know those waters well
Hello Pelagic,
Not much in the way of detail, The Coast Trader's master said he was sorry and was guilty - and as there was no collision. The Magistrate found the vessel to be in contravention of the Regulations. It was a long time ago - 28/29 years ago, the Governor was Sir Edward Youde, The British were great friends with the Americans - so were the girls in Wan Chai who were planning great things for the boys off the 7th Fleet which was visiting for R & R.
The Coastal Trader had left the KCR railway freight-yard with cargo and was proceeding east until she arrived at 22d 17.' N x 114d.4' E - Lei Yue Mun, which coincided with the arrival of the 7th Fleet's Aircraft Carrier preceded by Marine Police Boats, Tugs, Fire Boats and boats from the Royal Navy. My understanding was that the trader instead of stopping safely north of East West fairway, decided to cross over to the West East fairway, thereby causing a major "snarlup" - which resulted in the Hong Kong marine police boats, the tugs, the Royal Navy all rushing off to intercept the trader and drag it off the street.
I never witnessed the above, however a little later that very same day from my window in the Empire Building in Kowloon over looking Victoria Harbour - I witnessed the arrival of the Aircraft Carrier at the same time and took note of a very small Sampan, the owner of which was busy fishing right in the middle of the principal fairway, immediately a Police boat rushed over and after much gesticulating persuaded the Sampan to get his act out of there.

I seem to remember that the Aircraft Carrier was the nuclear powered USS Enterprise.
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Old 02-06-2010, 08:28   #141
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Thanks Laidback… I was there then and can remember the insanity on the water because almost everything was done on the hook.

Chinese New Year after the fireworks was especially memorable… talk about multilateral considerations…lol
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Old 02-06-2010, 08:41   #142
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Rule 7 Risk of Collision

Rule 7 Risk of collision.

(a) Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision exists. If there as any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist.


(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of risk of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic observations of detected objects.


(c) Assumptions shall not be made on the basis of scanty information, especially scanty radar information.


(d) In determining if risk of collision exists the following considerations shall be among those taken into account.


(i) such risk shall be deemed to exist it the compass bearing of an approaching vessel does not appreciably change.


(ii) such risk may sometimes exist even when an appreciable bearing change is evident, particularly when approaching a very large vessel or a tow or when approaching a vessel at close range.


Discussion Point:

The question arises as to how far apart the vessels must be before risk of collision should be considered to exist and the obligations to keep course and speed first begin to apply to the privileged vessel?
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Old 02-06-2010, 09:15   #143
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Calculations

I suppose it goes without saying, if you are the more maneuverable vessle and there is a collision you were too close. Calculating that has got to include estimating your speed and vector relative to the other vehicles. In the instance of a tug towing a barge on a long lead then you need to be sure that given current, wind and wave conditions you can safely cross it's path. Otherwise go aft of the barge since control for the tow has got to be non-existant. If under sail you need to factor the time it takes to start your engine should the wind lighten as well.

I would think in all circumstances allowing for "unforseen" events might be a good idea. How long does it take your vessel to react to a change in circumstance?
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:14   #144
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The question arises as to how far apart the vessels must be before risk of collision should be considered to exist and the obligations to keep course and speed first begin to apply to the privileged vessel?
This kind of jumps ahead to rules 16 and 17, but as I've mentioned before there are four stages to a situation where risk of collision exists:
1) range or time to CPA is so great that risk of collision does not yet exist;
2) the stage where risk of collision exists and the stand-on vessel shall maintain its course and speed;
3) the stage where the stand-on vessel may take action if it's felt the give-way vessel is not taking appropriate action; and
4) the stage where the stand-on vessel must take action to best avoid collision.
There are no fixed ranges assigned to any of the stages as it depends on many factors: traffic density, proximity to navigational hazards, visibility, characteristics of the vessels involved, etc. In open ocean where you see one other vessel at 7 or 8 miles and the CPA is in 20 minutes, then I would say stage 2 would be in effect at about 6 miles; stage three at roughly 1.5 miles/5 min TCPA; and stage 4 determined entirely by the manoeuvrability of your vessel and the 'angle of attack'. In the Gulf Islands/San Juans you might not see a vessel until it pops out from the other side of an island inside 1 mile - obviously the four stages would be considerably more compressed.
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Old 02-06-2010, 18:46   #145
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For those of us who may have forgotten Colregs' various nomenclatorial abbreviations, eg.. CPA and TCPA :-
Closest Point of Approach (CPA) and Time to CPA (TCPA).
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Old 02-06-2010, 18:57   #146
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this is great
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Old 02-06-2010, 19:30   #147
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Lodesman presented a good set of stages that should be followed.

Some considerations:

1) Speed of the vessels involved.
2) Length of the vessels and length of any tows.
3) Proximity of hazards.
4) Depth and width of channels
5) Presence of Traffic Separation Zones
6) Types of vessels (RAM, NUC, fishing, etc..)
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Old 02-06-2010, 20:06   #148
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I can't take the credit - that goes to my good friends Cockcroft and Lameijer.
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Old 02-06-2010, 20:38   #149
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Discussion Point:

The question arises as to how far apart the vessels must be before risk of collision should be considered to exist and the obligations to keep course and speed first begin to apply to the privileged vessel?

Great Summary Lodesman and you are correct, it appears we are jumping ahead to 16 & 17 and how it relates to 12, 14, 15 and 18 but at the moment I am thinking in general plus historical terms of how a watch keeper should approach this and manage his time.

I am hoping that those who are following this and are new to COLREGS have taken my advice to… read and memorize one rule a night… so that they can slowly appreciate our interpretations and stay ahead of the discussions.

Historically the courts have held that a risk of collision has not been held to apply at long distances.

My sketch below is a fairly standard teaching module in simulators for large ships bridge management in open water.

It works well for yachts except action can be delayed in good visibility so that the ship can see a “readily apparent” course change from the smaller vessel

Both the use of compass bearings as well as radar to make sure a safe CPA is maintained have been reinforced in court cases to be used… instead of just using one or the other.

Discussion point:

Which Radar settings do you prefer to use in conditions of poor visibility for collision avoidance?

Heads up?

Course Up?


North Up?


True Motion?
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Old 02-06-2010, 20:45   #150
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I prefer my radar heads up. It just seems more intuitive to me.

Jack
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