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Old 05-01-2014, 08:36   #46
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
i was in a marina when this occurred. the occurrences did no t happen this far south., it only happened where the mouth writing postings about falsification of papers was actively cruising. sorry folks. my ears are to streets, not lofty places and i do hear a lot more than you can imagine. funny what you hear when judging regattas with port captains.

it is also funny what happens when one is actually IN COUNTRY when trying to release a boat from impound. it happens., from remote locales out of mexico,a lot longer, as the release is not their priority.
it is also strange to me that the story of joun hards, which is proper spelling of the man´s name, was so easily able to release his boat yet those who refuse to arrive and drive or bus to tax man are having such difficulties.
the situation is a concern, yes, but i do not believe in coincidences.
when the occurrences are in a specific area, when the mouth roared exactly from the affected area, and when these affected areas are only in the exact locale in which one person who d¡srespects mexico is hanging out, and when i hear what it is that is being spoken by officials i sail with and judge regattas with, i must wonder why it is the lofty souls who spend so little time here actually think they know th e place.
r
No offense Zee...I have been reading your posts for 5+ years now and you have this tendency to conclude what is fact from what you think. The thought that someone posting on this forum or through any other media and is being watched, is absurd.
As far as "having an ear to the street"? A little over inflated. Although my feelings about Richard and Latitude 38 are a little indifferent at this point after reading the rag for 25 years, mostly because they help to increase boat resource prices down here, they have had oodles of experience with Mexico. I know that Richard is friends with many Mexican officials on many different levels. To make a claim that Richard does not spend much time in Mexico is pretty convoluted. If you total up all the days Richard has been in Mexico cruising on boats and your days there, you might look more like a vacationer in comparison. And certainly he has done many more miles to boot. I'm not putting your journey down but you shouldn't minimize Richards experience for sure.
I'm not trying to turn this into a pissing contest. I'm not even asking for a reality check because most times it is impossible to get people to back off on their opinions. But it is just that...opinions. Nothing wrong with that as long as that is the way your "facts" are understood.
When AGACE come's here to visit me...they might find discrepancies in my paperwork. I don't think so as they were well checked when I entered the country. But if they do, I'll deal with it. To think that they are taking the time to single out people as retaliation for having negative opinions is nothing short of stinking thinking.
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:54   #47
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

i hear what officials i mingle with have to say and i LISTEN
i have much opportunity to mingle with em as many do sail. omy goodness i might even hear frirt hand from folks like port captains and their minions what is going on around ....
and i remain WITH my boat and get to watch and listen as stuff happens.
it takes more than a week here and a week there to be able to hear the good stuff, alsi a pretending of not understanding the language, so folks feel free to discuss whatever they wish in front of me..lol
happy releasing your boats. is a sad day when so much argumentativeness is spewed for no0 reason.
go to mexico to release your boat, it will not take so long as trying to do it from remote northern locales.
mexico is not like usa in any sense of words. is entirely different and that must be respected.
sounding like a politician in usa is not how to get it done.
it is still funny how when i hear the northerners complain about this kind of business in mexico and complaining as to how long stuff takes here....yet not coming to do the deeds in person...is still spewing from a desk.
good luck in releasing boats from remote locales. i only know what i see in person and hear with my own ears..
happy new year
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:01   #48
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

My dear Zee, aside from fluff what I hear from you, with 'ears to the streets', is you saying that if one should have a vessel in MX that they should remain with the vessel.

What of that couple who returns to the states for a few days? Or, as Rebel Heart has stated, that he returned to the states to conduct business, ie, earn an income or to purchase goodies, yet while he was away from the boat the MX authorities moved in on his vessel?

Please, dear Zee, if you have something, spill it so the wider cruising community would be better informed. Please don't make me say the otherwise.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:21   #49
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

We are in one of the affected marinas in La Cruz, and according to the marina 40 boats here have been temporarily impounded. All of those boats have their paperwork and have paid their taxes, and it could be up to four months until the matter is resolved.

As an example, our neighbor was not on his boat when the officials came by but returned while they were still in the marina. He tried to give them his paperwork then, but they wouldn't take it, saying that all was in order. His boat, however, is now on the list.

We narrowly avoided getting on that list ourselves, even though we live on our boat and purchased our TIP (i.e. paid our taxes) way back in May of 2012. We were away from the boat having our baby in Guadalajara when the officials came by. Not exactly a situation we could do much about, but thankfully we had our TIP displayed in the window. This evidently mollified the officials enough to keep us off the list.

Now, however, it turns out that we were supposed to have the TIP on file with the marina as well, but no one mentioned that when we checked in. Ignorance? Perhaps, but we don't stay in marinas often. And in fact, no one - not a single port captain, immigration official or marina personnel from two marinas - has ever asked for our TIP in 10 months of cruising Mexico. And just try to get a TIP when checking into the country via Chiapas, especially if you aren't from the U.S. or Canada. It's an impenetrable morass that often ends in complete frustration for everyone involved, including the officials who are supposed to do this for a living. And I guess this is my point. This is a newish system, and the rules aren't always obvious. The implementation isn't going especially smoothly, and while I understand that Mexican officials are just trying to make sure everything is on the up and up, it does royally suck for all those boats that followed the rules, which happen to be the VAST majority.

Ninety-nine percent of these boaters are not scofflaws or tax avoiders or forgers, but just regular boat owners caught up in an unfortunate circumstance. For some of them, it could mean missing the Puddle Jump or four months of extra marina bills, not nice outcomes if it plays out that way. No doubt it will be resolved before it comes to that, but it would certainly make me nervous. As I'm sure it would all of you.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:31   #50
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

Minaret, you got to know that 'dude' (and any reference therein, intentional misspelling nothwithstanding) carries a heavily dismissive overtone here in the west. I'll make an allowance if you're in, or have been in, a Seattle grunge band...or sniff resin for a living. Fair thee well.

Oh hey, we want pictures dammit!
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:40   #51
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pirate Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

Thanks to bettiedelmar for the update. Let's hope other cruisers fare as well. Congrats on the new kidlet, too. You guys are walking the walk, fer sure.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:45   #52
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

I neither sail nor fly to/from Mexico. No matter what are the causes of this "debacle", like wild fire the word will get around to avoid sailing Mexico. I don't think the Mexican government wants that to happen; cut your nose to spite your face. It would be beneficial to everyone to just stick to the facts, and not to repeat hearsay. (For example, the boat was impounded because the port's captain didn't like me catching a huge grouper, then selling half of it to a restaurant...). This will allow each individual sailor to come to an informed decision about the worthiness of sailing to Mexico.

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Old 05-01-2014, 09:49   #53
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

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I have learned that a smile and patience go a very long way and not to take personally when another person from a different country is having a bad day. And to understand that the people I am facing are just trying to do their job and did not create the policy at hand.
Once, in Ireland, I was making small talk with a work crew repairing a bridge abutment after a car had gone into the drink several days before. The first day they had nothing nice to say in spite of me. The 2nd day they were all shits and giggles. It's not so much that I persevered but when I finally told them I too am a mason but from the states. Good old boys from then on.

Another time, in south France, I was the only one at the bar on an early Spring day. The barkeep would barely speak to me. To him I was another damn American. Then I said outloud to no one in particular how I would be out sailing on this fine blustery morn. He perked up for he too loves to sail. It turned out he was from Brazil and hated how he couldn't find much opportunity to speak Portuguese. We chatted for hours me and him.

It is the commonality of folks which is the bond. As you have found, even though there may be a language barrier, there is always something to be shared if only a smile and respect for your fellow.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:58   #54
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

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I neither sail nor fly to/from Mexico. No matter what are the causes of this "debacle", like wild fire the word will get around to avoid sailing Mexico. I don't think the Mexican government wants that to happen; cut your nose to spite your face. It would be beneficial to everyone to just stick to the facts, and not to repeat hearsay. (For example, the boat was impounded because the port's captain didn't like me catching a huge grouper, then selling half of it to a restaurant...). This will allow each individual sailor to come to an informed decision about the worthiness of sailing to Mexico.

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I've spent my last in that country. Never shall I return. I needn't say why for the writing has been on the wall lo these many years. Sure, I know, many will say what fabulous stupendous grounds (TM) I am missing but so what. I've seen enough of the place.
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:27   #55
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

I don't know about this Mexico problem, but for those who blame the officials for having different rules in each port, or enforcing or not enforcing laws as you think they should. Have you ever cruised in the USA?

A foreign boat must check into each port (that's the law, and written on the cruising permit), or risk a minimum $5000 fine and possibly lose their boat.

Now that you know the terms of the cruising permit, just try checking with customs at every port! Most have no idea what you're talking about, but if you don't have a clearance number for each port, you can be sure when the customs gunboat comes calling, that those chums know the law, and how you can be screwed by it.

Most folks ignore calling in as it's a hassle, esp with customs not knowing what to do with you. We always call and just get the officer's name, if they don't have a clearance number for us. Would that be sufficient proof for the gunboat? I don't know, but it's a compromise I'm willing to make.

99% of cruisers I've met on the east coast never call, it's just how it's done, and customs seems happier that way. But man, what a blow up there would be on this forum if one day DHS, or some other agency decides to swarm the cruisers on the east coast and seize their boats. I can tell you one thing for sure, you don't get to stay on your boat in the USA if it's been seized.

The letter of the law is not always followed, even by the enforcers of said law, even in those countries who think of themselves as better than Mexico.

Every country I've visited has specific laws governing us cruisers. But those customs agents you meet with, won't look fondly on you if you try to tell them their jobs. If they do it one way, and you quote the law to them, you'll regret it every time. You just have to go with the flow, as much as you can, and sometimes the officialdom will bite you in the ass. But usually, in the end, you'll be Jake.

For those who don't know, West Palm Beach, and south, have entirely different rules (not laws) than anywhere north. We almost got our boat impounded because the fellow at the desk decided that what's written on the cruising permit, and what's followed by every other customs office was not how it's done in Fla. He told me "That's not how it's done here in Florida"!

My crime: arriving from Puerto Rico at 2am and waiting for the office to open at 9am before checking into the port. For the record, I have 24 hours to check in if I'm not coming from "foreign". I double checked this info before leaving Puerto Rico, just in case we landed somewhere remote.

Anyway. It's a shame, but remember, it could easily happen in the USA too. Only it would be all us Canadians, and others, ranting on the web.

Cheers, and learn your own county's rules, before casting stones.

Paul.
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:44   #56
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

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Cheers, and learn your own county's rules, before casting stones.
And try getting a tourist visa in the US if you arrive on a private boat or plane from outside N. America - won't happen.



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Old 05-01-2014, 10:51   #57
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

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Once, in Ireland, I was making small talk with a work crew repairing a bridge abutment after a car had gone into the drink several days before. The first day they had nothing nice to say in spite of me. The 2nd day they were all shits and giggles. It's not so much that I persevered but when I finally told them I too am a mason but from the states. Good old boys from then on.

Another time, in south France, I was the only one at the bar on an early Spring day. The barkeep would barely speak to me. To him I was another damn American. Then I said outloud to no one in particular how I would be out sailing on this fine blustery morn. He perked up for he too loves to sail. It turned out he was from Brazil and hated how he couldn't find much opportunity to speak Portuguese. We chatted for hours me and him.

It is the commonality of folks which is the bond. As you have found, even though there may be a language barrier, there is always something to be shared if only a smile and respect for your fellow.
I use a trick to soften up even the grumpiest curmudgeons. If I walk into an establishment and say "Hey...did you hear about the baby born at the hospital last night"? (It always perks their ears) Then I say "Ya...apparently it was born with 5 penis's. (Then you get various strange looks) "Ya...they say the diaper fit like a glove"!
Inevitably they laugh or at least smile and all is good from there on. Try it sometime.
Maybe I'll have to learn how to say it in Spanish.
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:07   #58
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

We sail for the pleasure it gives us to live on our boat and travel. I do not think what is happening to boats in Mexico now is something I want to chance getting caught up in, and certainly not a pleasure. We are now cruising after years of getting ourselves and our boat ready, rented the house and moved on board and gave up our slip. We will cruise US waters until this all shakes out in Mexico and then maybe consider going south.

I am sure we are not alone in this decision. It is too bad because we were looking forward to experiencing Mexico in a different way over an extended period. We even went to the Mexican Consulate and filed for our Residente Temporal visas. We have previously sailed to Ensenada and visited, by plane, several cities in central Mexico but expected the cruising life there to be something special. Oh well, we plan our route and then adjust to the winds and weather. We adjusted our plans to skip Mexico for now waiting for this to blow over.


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Old 05-01-2014, 11:09   #59
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"Hola ... "se enteró de que el bebé nació en el hospital ayer por la noche?"...
"Si ... parece ser que nació con 5 de pene. "
"Mais... ellos dicen que el pañal se ajusta como un guante"

With a little help from Google..
Portuguese would be easier for me..
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Old 05-01-2014, 15:59   #60
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

Right then. This is a topic that is currently of interest to the cruisers. With that in mind we are reinstating it after we have been through the last efforts and deleted many posts that were offensive/snarky/ rubbish/completely off topic/ other reasons that I forget right now. Plus, any post that quoted the aforementioned posts had to be deleted. This has taken a fairly long time as you can imagine, so please heed the fact that it is now a hot topic and keep it polite and relevant to the topic so that all the effort by the members and the mods is not wasted.

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