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Old 27-01-2014, 16:25   #256
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

Zeehag said: "sorry. i am legal. isnt difficult."

No - you are lucky and have your head in the sand!

Many intelligent boaters on this site have listed detailed problems with boats that were 100% compliant with all regulations.

Other boaters have told us about their immediate correction of any deficiency in their paperwork yet they are still embargoed

I have personally talked with Mexican officials and have asked for clarification of important details. The answers have been contradictory and nonsensical.

I am quite confident that I can go to Ensenada, check in with SIT, get the correct paperwork and never have a problem in Mexico. Just like the last two times I was there.

But - to smugly say that all the problems boats suffered are self induced is ridiculous.
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Old 27-01-2014, 16:34   #257
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
seems to me that those COMING TO MEXICO and presenting their papers IN PERSON and doing it the mexican way..in pèrson with respect, the boats are cleared..... shouldnt be too difficult. the process has been spelled out more than one time in with all this balderdash being posted.
is also strange that if this is so INTOLERABLE why, then were ONLY 338 out of over 1600 boats tagged.....
and why is it those tagged and refusing to appear at sat in person are the only ones still whining about lack of service and intolerance

mexico doesnt do anything online. get real. they do it in person.
btw...there are many more than only 1600 boats in mexico... there are over 10,000 boats in mexico. .and that is only boats belonging to non mexicans. mexicans also have sailboats and mega yachts and aquatic toys in marinas in mexico. if most of these can be legal, what is the big deal in being legal.... sorry. i am legal. isnt difficult.

if it is so very terrible here, why , then , do so many still enjoy life on the water here in mexico. unmolested. safe . comfortable. and , i might add, totally legal.
The reality of this thread had zilch to do with checking into the country and was only about TIP's and the boats that were put on temporary hold while the matter was cleared up. Nothing has been posted, as you claim, about checking in. So where is the balderdash, really?
The TIPs were issued online and the Mexican Government urged this. So again...this is something that you have created as some form of fact that just plainly does not exist. The TIPs can be obtained online, on their sites. All their laws are posted online, on their sites.
The number of 1600 boats was from a few Marinas (I think 4) that were checked. Some how you're missing that little point.
The TIP process online was ill-conceived. When I applied, they did not list my boats manufacturer and did not allow me to register the year since they did not give the option of my particular year. So once in the country had to go to Banjercito and pay another full fee for their mistake. Am I bitter?...Not at all. It's just Mexico. You are down in Barra. Far, far away where anything has yet happened. As you sit right now, fixing your engine, I hope you have registered your engine serial number or if you change out your propulsion system, pay for a new TIP. If you don't, you'll get slapped with the same...a temporary impound and not allowed to leave...even though this might not affect your long term plans.
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Old 27-01-2014, 16:41   #258
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

actually, i am down here in costalegre, south of cabo corrientes, anchored in a lagoon listening to a lot of whining from folks who refuse to appear in mexico to clear their boats. those who have appeared here to do so , as far as i have been advised, have been cleared. 26 out of 338 is a sad turnout, and yáll say you are interested in your possessions. ok if so..get here and do the requisite work. i am current on the changes to many of the laws affecting us here because i read and listen to the noticias put out by the federales. omy. unique situation. actually paying attention, unlike most of those whining about not being able to sail their boats yet have not arrived here in mexico to clear them.
omygawds..i even speak some spanish..no, not spanglish, real spanish...lol ye ought to try doing that. it really does help here where the national language is spanish. helps not only facilitate legal matters,but it also shows respect of and for the place you are visiting, and it helps you to understand that which the officiales are saying about you before your face because they have dubious respect, if any, for you. respect is to be earned here. is not gifted.

btw..until this regime took office, tips were only available in person at banjercito. i got mine in person in banjercito, as was directed. all is much easier when done in mexico.
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Old 27-01-2014, 16:41   #259
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
Many intelligent boaters on this site have listed detailed problems with boats that were 100% compliant with all regulations.

Other boaters have told us about their immediate correction of any deficiency in their paperwork yet they are still embargoed
Well, the intelligent boaters think that these boats were compliant, or they felt that they should be. But it turned out that many did not have their VIN or had a wong VIN on the form (or another number like registration number) or they did not have the TIP displyed behind the window etc… all of which meant that, to the letter of Mexican law, they were not compliant.

Paying the fee etc. certainly puts one morally on the good side, nobody is denying that, but it still means that the forms need to be correct in order to be legally compliant.

Correction of paperwork but still waiting to be released? yes, a form of bureaucratic punishment for those not being compliant initially. I don't think boats with wrong data on their US cruising permits get off the hook that easily…

Of-course the Mexicans did a thousand things wrong. But that doesn't make a missing VIN right.
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Old 27-01-2014, 16:44   #260
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
Zeehag said: "sorry. i am legal. isnt difficult."

No - you are lucky and have your head in the sand!

Many intelligent boaters on this site have listed detailed problems with boats that were 100% compliant with all regulations.

Other boaters have told us about their immediate correction of any deficiency in their paperwork yet they are still embargoed

I have personally talked with Mexican officials and have asked for clarification of important details. The answers have been contradictory and nonsensical.

I am quite confident that I can go to Ensenada, check in with SIT, get the correct paperwork and never have a problem in Mexico. Just like the last two times I was there.

But - to smugly say that all the problems boats suffered are self induced is ridiculous.
Yup...Just the way it is. I am working on another avenue of the TIP that might bite us later on. That is the importation of goods specifically for the vessel listed on the TIP. Like the problems with the new TIP and past enforcement, there is confusion as to fees and taxes for item brought into Mexico for the TIPs boat. apparently two different laws on the books, stating two different things. One for imported vehicles/boats and one for corporations.
I have found out some interesting laws and statements from Harbor managers around this. I won't go into it with any details now until we get this craziness behind us. But rest assured, just because we get this situation under control won't mean further problems down the road.
Still, I have to take my hat off to the Mexican government for their efforts to change laws in order to make things easier for everyone involved. I'm confidant it will all be worked out.
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Old 27-01-2014, 16:54   #261
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

So for those that are interested, here is the site for the TIPs.

https://www.banjercito.com.mx/registroVehiculos/
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Old 27-01-2014, 16:57   #262
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

“[SAT agents] did the wrong thing,” Tourism Board Director Jorge Gamboa said. “They went there and didn’t know how to read the papers.” - See more at: The Log Newspaper | California Boating & Fishing News - Mexico-Releases-Boats

Admission of differing interpretation? After all, what would prompt SAT to act wrongly?
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Old 27-01-2014, 17:21   #263
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

Territorial waters, according to the UN, extend to 12 NM, but in some countries it can be up to 24 NM. Having said that, ships that carry "questionable/hazardous cargo" can be tracked, stopped and searched ANYWHERE, irrespective of territorial waters limitations. North Korea, Cuba and Iran cargo ships fall in that category. Somali pirates do not recognize any country's territorial waters.

Go to places with less hassle and headaches, if you can afford it.

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Old 27-01-2014, 17:36   #264
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Territorial waters, according to the UN, extend to 12 NM, but in some countries it can be up to 24 NM. Having said that, ships that carry "questionable/hazardous cargo" can be tracked, stopped and searched ANYWHERE, irrespective of territorial waters limitations. North Korea, Cuba and Iran cargo ships fall in that category. Somali pirates do not recognize any country's territorial waters.

Go to places with less hassle and headaches, if you can afford it.

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Can't afford to sail to those places.. so I'll stay local,, Cheers
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Old 27-01-2014, 18:25   #265
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

Latitude 38's take on this for today. It seems that they have quoted a couple of us in this article.
Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude
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Old 27-01-2014, 20:11   #266
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Well, the intelligent boaters think that these boats were compliant, or they felt that they should be. But it turned out that many did not have their VIN or had a wong VIN on the form (or another number like registration number) or they did not have the TIP displyed behind the window etc… all of which meant that, to the letter of Mexican law, they were not compliant.

Paying the fee etc. certainly puts one morally on the good side, nobody is denying that, but it still means that the forms need to be correct in order to be legally compliant.

Correction of paperwork but still waiting to be released? yes, a form of bureaucratic punishment for those not being compliant initially. I don't think boats with wrong data on their US cruising permits get off the hook that easily…

Of-course the Mexicans did a thousand things wrong. But that doesn't make a missing VIN right.
from what I can gather the Mexican website did not allow folks to input the correct details - so plenty just made stuff up and went to Mexico anyway. But 2 wrongs do not make a right, but it's amazing what folks will convince themself is ok when conveniant for them - and often then genuinely think it is " not my fault " when reality collides with self delusion
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Old 27-01-2014, 20:30   #267
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

Why is it hard for certain posters here to believe that the Mexicans did this in a half assed manner and caused it from the beginning. Mexico has never been a smooth running place with consistent laws from border to border.
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Old 27-01-2014, 21:07   #268
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

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from what I can gather the Mexican website did not allow folks to input the correct details - so plenty just made stuff up and went to Mexico anyway. But 2 wrongs do not make a right, but it's amazing what folks will convince themself is ok when conveniant for them - and often then genuinely think it is " not my fault " when reality collides with self delusion
Well...How do you input correct details when you can't? If you don't fill in the blanks, it doesn't go through. Then what?
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Old 27-01-2014, 21:07   #269
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

Zeehag said: "btw..until this regime took office, tips were only available in person at banjercito. i got mine in person in banjercito, as was directed. all is much easier when done in mexico."

Captain Pat Rains and Fito Espinoza both told me, and many dozens of other potential cruisers at the Sunroad Boat Show, that the proper procedure is to apply for the TIP online and to have the TIP in your possession BEFORE leaving San Diego for Mexico.

When asked how to apply for an online TIP when the banjercito web site does not allow the applicant to enter a Make and Model for the boat - the answer was that we should then go to an office in Mexico and get a correction to the TIP.

When asked how to get the mandatory TIP decal that must be displayed on the port side of the boat if the TIP is issued online all the Mexican officials and Captain Rains acknowledged they did not know that the decal is not mailed with the TIP that can be issued online.

Again, they said "Well - I guess you need to go to SAT in Mexico to get the decal."

And you want to tell us that the whole process is clearly understood and well documented?

You are correct - the only safe way to get a TIP is to go to a SAT office in Mexico and apply in person from a Mexican official.
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Old 27-01-2014, 21:22   #270
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Re: Impounded boats in Mexico

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You are correct - the only safe way to get a TIP is to go to a SAT office in Mexico and apply in person from a Mexican official.
And that is the answer to all those who insist their incorrect TIP should be correct because a website did not allow a particular boat type etc.

Those TIPs are worthless because you chose invalid data to be entered When you find you can't can't get it right there, you must get one in person upon entry, instead of opting for an incorrect document

Yes, that Mexican website sounds bad, much like that O'care insurance one, but I'm sure they'll fix it any time soon now!
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