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Old 01-02-2013, 17:45   #1
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Question I need some advice here...

Hello everybody,

I am in Florida and trying to purchase an Italian boat that was imported to the states a year ago. its a SV from 1983. the boat is listed by broker and we are under a contract, actually today was closing day but we didn't close because we have a problem....

Talking to the boat home port in Italy I discovered that the boat has 4 owners and not one owner, as I been told.

In 2002 this guy (suppose to be the only owner) didn't verify that there wasn't a deletion of the previous owners and probably in the official records he joined the previous 3 . now we need all the 4 of them to agree for the sale but some of them are not alive anymore...and.... bla bla bla....

Bottom line:
the way that I see it I have three possible options :

1) to pay a company in Italy that will organize everything- transfer of the ownership and I can keep the boat under Italian flag- they want 2000-2500 E !!! and I don't have this money to spend on this, and they still need the 4 owners (or power of attorney) to be present.

2) Another option is to forget about Italy and to make a new registration in the states. with the papers I have I know its possible, but then I am not sure if I will have any problems in the future ... I am planning to go around the world with the boat... basically the boat will be register in two places, in the Italian records the owners will be all the 4 of them but in the states it will be only me.

3) to walk away - which I really don't want, I love the boat and already spent a lot of money on her (survey, accommodation and some repairs)

BTW I am not planning to have any insurance but maybe the next owner will.

I already spoke with many documentation agencies and except the one in Italy no one else knows what to do.

So... what you think I should do?? any advises??

Thank you very much for Reading!

Much love!

Ben
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Old 01-02-2013, 17:50   #2
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Re: I need some advise here...

Buy the boat, change the name, change the flag. Maybe a paint job. And don't go to Italy.
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Old 01-02-2013, 17:51   #3
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Re: I need some advise here...

Cut your losses and get out of the deal. Chuck it up to experience! Mauritz
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Old 01-02-2013, 17:52   #4
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Re: I need some advise here...

It is upto the seller to deliver clear title. Have them pay to get it clear in Italy.
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Old 01-02-2013, 17:58   #5
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Re: I need some advise here...

I expect your contract requires the seller to deliver the boat with a clear title free of any liens, etc. Typically the seller also warrants that they are the owner and/or have the power to sell the boat.

I would make this the seller's problem. They need to clear the title, with emphasis on "they". I don't know how Italian law works, but in the US you would have to get the executor of the dead owners' estate to sign off and quit claim the ownership position. There is no way I would take ownership of the boat without all this cleared up. For all you know, the other owners do still have an interest in the boat and one guy is off selling it under their noses. You don't need anyone coming out of the woods claiming an ownership interest in the boat after you 'think' you own it.
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Old 01-02-2013, 18:01   #6
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Re: I need some advise here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
It is upto the seller to deliver clear title. Have them pay to get it clear in Italy.
I 2nd what Paul said. Its the sellers issue not yours. You need a clear title
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Old 01-02-2013, 18:03   #7
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Re: I need some advise here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
It is upto the seller to deliver clear title. Have them pay to get it clear in Italy.
Exactly. If the "owner" wants to sell the boat it is his or her responsibility to give a clear title to the buyer.

If the seller is unable or unwilling to get this done I would reduce the offer price by the cost to get a clear title. However I would not do this unless I was completely certain a clear title could be obtained and at that cost and no more. In fact I would offer even less to cover the time and hassle involved.
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Old 01-02-2013, 18:16   #8
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Re: I need some advise here...

Yeah... thank you all!! you gave me some ideas
thanks for the support!
Ben
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Old 01-02-2013, 18:19   #9
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Re: I need some advise here...

This happens more than you know. Documentation of the vessel to a country is fine for a boat that travels Off shore to other countries, in fact for most is mandatory. When a boat is sold it is up to the seller to change the details of ownership, but this can be a thing easely forgoten as this type of documentation is not like a annual renewal so no reminders are sent.
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Old 01-02-2013, 18:28   #10
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Re: I need some advise here...

I agree that it is the seller that has to guarantee clear title, but I suspect there will be some argument about this if the seller thinks he has you on the hook. You wouldn't want one of these "dead" owners to turn up some day and claim ownership of the boat. Unless you are a U.S. citizen you wouldn't be able to get U.S. documentation for the vessel, and Florida registration would only get you so far--some places, particularly French ones, demand to see U.S. documentation if the boat comes from the USA. And, the biggest problem you might encounter some day is that once you try to sell the vessel you might find the next owner is not so accommodating about forgiving you for not having clear title.
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Old 01-02-2013, 18:46   #11
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Re: I need some advise here...

Think about it, if you buy this boat under the current situation, and lets assume you don't have any issues while you own it, all of these same issues will bit you in the ass again when you try to sell it in the future. Walk away or assume the risk, unless it is an unbelievable deal, cut your losses .
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Old 01-02-2013, 19:05   #12
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Re: I need some advise here...

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Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
Think about it, if you buy this boat under the current situation, and lets assume you don't have any issues while you own it, all of these same issues will bit you in the ass again when you try to sell it in the future. Walk away or assume the risk, unless it is an unbelievable deal, cut your losses .
Not if the boat is re-documented in the US which the OP claims he can do.
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Old 01-02-2013, 19:09   #13
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Re: I need some advise here...

Well... I can only register the boat in the states because I am not a US citizen
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Old 01-02-2013, 19:11   #14
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Re: I need some advise here...

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Well... I can only register the boat in the states because I am not a US citizen
Then forget it.
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Old 01-02-2013, 19:57   #15
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Re: I need some advise here...

[QUOTE=benschleifer;1145914]Hello everybody,

I am in Florida and trying to purchase an Italian boat that was imported to the states a year ago. its a SV from 1983. the boat is listed by broker and we are under a contract, actually today was closing day but we didn't close because we have a problem....

Talking to the boat home port in Italy I discovered that the boat has 4 owners and not one owner, as I been told.

In 2002 this guy (suppose to be the only owner) didn't verify that there wasn't a deletion of the previous owners and probably in the official records he joined the previous 3 . now we need all the 4 of them to agree for the sale but some of them are not alive anymore...and.... bla bla bla....

First the family hairs would have to claim owners..and trust me they don't want the complications either..LOL My best and only advise is to RUN!!!! away, Far Far away. If the broker is unable to deliver clean title.. take it no further. Yes; you could re-document the boat but if..if some one has a "lien" against this vessel in anyway..you will again loose. Its, really a game of craps. and your always going to wonder who's coming next!

You know the old saying is! If the deal sounds, too good to be true.. chances are it probably is.. RUN! Grasshopper
Good Luck! Richard

PS. I have a bridge to sell you cheep too! I have had it in the family for 150 years.. I own it and I can have my broker call you if you like. The price you ask? Ill let it go cheap.. Hm how about 25,000. USD. I will even throw in the the toll booth's no charge. All you have to do is put a deposit down..say 2,500. and will close on next Friday. See how that sounds!

Get your money back from the Broker. Please, let us know what his reaction was when you ask for it back. I'm sure everyone here wants to know.

Again, good luck!! Richard
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