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Mimsy · 01-02-2013, 19:23

You paid for repairs before you closed? Wow.
You need to run far away and then you need to stay away from anything the broker in question has listed. I can not believe that a broker- even one working for the seller would not speak up about having repairs done on a boat before it closed. What of the repairs were not done properly or caused damage?

You need to run far, far away from this deal and consider the money spent money spent on an education.

benschleifer · 01-02-2013, 19:54

Its a long time now that I am looking for a boat and like many sailors on a very low budget.... costs of car rental,motels,survey,food and more were very expensive for me and probably for many of you as well.

The broker was is very kind and allowed me to sleep and live on the boat before closing, I think for many of us getting connected to a boat is very fast, so I decided to install a battery charger that I found in the flea market and a few more small repairs and cleaning.... more for my mind then for anybody else.

I am really happy for all this advises and I took them all. at the moment I still have some believe that maybe in a day or two things will be more clear...
I will share with you all the way my story finally finished... There is a sentence I once saw in a crappy movie... "in the end all is going to be good, and if its not good now probably its not the end yet..." sound more dramatic then I remember

Much love!!

Ben

David_Old_Jersey · 02-02-2013, 04:31

Seems like you arrived on CF with one problem (the 4 italian owners) and have acquired another one! (as a non US citizen you can't get on the US national ship Register (USCG documented) - only a local / regional (State) register, which has a good chance of not getting you past the Carribean...exactly the same as having the boat only registered in Mallorca (and not Spain).

I think you have made a mistake already by spending too much money pre purchase and will simply compound your problems by carrying on, as well as adding to your costs (to do "properly" (with dead people involved!) would take a long time and cost a lot and when you have paid the cash over the Vendor won't care anymore about helping). Buying someone else's problems is simply stupid. But your money and not mine.

Vendor / Broker has already lied to you. at least twice (he doesn't own the boat and you can't fully re-register in the States). WTF else do you need as a clue on what to do?

But if you do "have" to buy the boat, I would treat the deal and the boat as if it was stolen! It might well be, including by you! On the upside the price would be IRO 10 cents on the dollar.....and on the downside someone may one day ask some awkward questions, will then need to have some very good answers (and paperwork), ideally "magicked up" in advance..........

goboatingnow · 02-02-2013, 05:10

Dont be to harsh on the guy , these things are more common then you think.

Firstly , on what evidence are you basing the information that there are 4 owners. Is this on the existing registration. If so , the route is simple the seller(s) must now provide clean title, So you sit on it for a while until they do. They have a purchaser so they are under some compulsion to sort you out. give them a deadline.

They should also provide you with a indemnity that there are no outstanding leins and they have the power to sell the boat and are its owners and no others. its not worth a huge amount but it provides some solace in the future.

Thats it. It may take them a few weeks but so what.

Other then that, pull the deal.

Dave

David_Old_Jersey · 02-02-2013, 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Dont be to harsh on the guy , these things are more common then you think.

Fair enuf.

But bluntness used only for clarity -both for OP and for others (hopefully before they also get on a hook).

and I don't expect OP to take a blind bit of notice.

am not surprised common on boats, as not on anything else - always useful to suck folks in before letting in the details (and the devil

) as the best and most trusted salesman to use is the person themselves, amazing what folks are capable of convincing themselves about

.

stormyweather · 02-02-2013, 05:52

Ben, I would have to agree with most of the replies: walk away. It's a very tough thing to do, but it becomes much easier to do after you've made a few decisions that have ended up biting you back. Life's lessons.

Kettlewell · 02-02-2013, 06:02

I hate to ask, but are you working with a Florida-licensed boat broker or just someone calling themselves a "broker?" In Florida yacht brokers are supposed to be licensed and uphold certain legal standards, and I'm not certain your broker is doing so. You may want to look here and read more about Florida broker licensing, including how you can file a complaint if it becomes necessary. I know you probably don't want to go into that, but this situation sounds like there could be some shenanigans going on.

TheTeelSea · 02-02-2013, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by benschleifer

Hello everybody,

I am in Florida and trying to purchase an Italian boat that was imported to the states a year ago. its a SV from 1983. the boat is listed by broker and we are under a contract, actually today was closing day but we didn't close because we have a problem....

Talking to the boat home port in Italy I discovered that the boat has 4 owners and not one owner, as I been told.

In 2002 this guy (suppose to be the only owner) didn't verify that there wasn't a deletion of the previous owners and probably in the official records he joined the previous 3 . now we need all the 4 of them to agree for the sale but some of them are not alive anymore...and.... bla bla bla....

Bottom line:
the way that I see it I have three possible options :

1) to pay a company in Italy that will organize everything- transfer of the ownership and I can keep the boat under Italian flag- they want 2000-2500 E !!! and I don't have this money to spend on this, and they still need the 4 owners (or power of attorney) to be present.

2) Another option is to forget about Italy and to make a new registration in the states. with the papers I have I know its possible, but then I am not sure if I will have any problems in the future ... I am planning to go around the world with the boat... basically the boat will be register in two places, in the Italian records the owners will be all the 4 of them but in the states it will be only me.

3) to walk away - which I really don't want, I love the boat and already spent a lot of money on her (survey, accommodation and some repairs)

BTW I am not planning to have any insurance but maybe the next owner will.

I already spoke with many documentation agencies and except the one in Italy no one else knows what to do.

So... what you think I should do?? any advises??

Thank you very much for Reading!

Much love!

Ben

Ben! Take this to your broker to discuss with him this information. With what we talked about. He will know what to do.

How to Obtain a Boat Salvage Title

Ben. There is a number of circumstances in which you may need to obtain a salvage title for a boat. Sunken boats that are reclaimed, abandoned boats that are found on your property and damaged boats that are bought for scrap are all examples of salvaged boats. Often, these boats do not have an existing title, so a salvage title is issued to show ownership of the vessel. Knowing how to obtain a salvage title is important for anyone who deals in inoperable boats.

Next take the existing boat title, if present, to the clerk of courts. The clerk will cancel the title, ruling it useless in terms of selling the boat as an operable vehicle. Skip this step if no title is present.

Determine which government department controls boat title matters in your state. It is often the Department of Motor Vehicles, but in some states it is the Department of Revenue. In some states, such as Texas, boat registration falls under the authority of the state wildlife office. Go to the relevant location to apply for the boat salvage title.

Here is a customizable “Bill of Sale Form.” With - “Easy Step-by-Step Document Creation”.
Bill-of-Sale-http://www.scribd.com/doc/82508670/Vehicle-Bill-of-Sale

Take a number and wait your turn. When your number is called, explain to the clerk that you have an inoperable boat and need to obtain a salvage title. You will be asked to complete a form.

Complete the form. You will need your personal information, such as your name, address and your date of birth. You will also need information about the boat, such as its type, its length and color. If there are any serial numbers or other markings on the boat, you must also submit that information.
Return the form to the clerk. If you have a canceled title, hand in the canceled title with the form. Likewise, if you purchased the boat as scrap, surrender a copy of the bill of sale as well. You will be asked to provide a valid driver's license or another other form of photo ID to verify your identity. This is usually another government-issued ID. The clerk will input the necessary information, then will submit the application for a boat salvage title.
Pay the title fee, and then wait for the title to arrive by mail. The amount will vary from state to state. It may even vary from county to county within the same state. After the information is submitted and the fee has been paid, the title will arrive by mail in four to six weeks.

Hope this will tweak his brain.. Good Luck.. and let us know what's been done!.. Best Regards, Richard

PS. Of course the process may be different from state to state. However, your broker will know what to do..

OnTour · 03-02-2013, 05:20

Why isn't the broker dealing with this...not your problem.

TheTeelSea · 03-02-2013, 10:31

Dear all,

Thanks members for your "Help and advice!" Some good people or inexperience people try to look to this "FORUM" for some help, idea's and above all some sort of guidance or whatever it's to be.
Some advice may be a little off, funny, even twisted at times and on a never ending dilemma. But there's hope, that just one.. just one chance.. we may have free'd an open thought or idea of a new approach that "free's them" of that ultimate sad ending to their dilemma. That's to move on to the next deal, and except the "Lesson Learned" and keep dreaming alive. "Ooop's.. did I just quote "Brave-Heart".

I myself, being a new member here admire the members thoughts and suggestions that may be good or bad, but opens ones' mind to think!

I believe everyone has their good hart in place here and the rest are just fillers. However; This is an open forum and we all viewers need to respect this. Perhaps over the time passed you have forgotten, you were new too!

Best Regards, Richard....

Cheechako · 03-02-2013, 10:45

Make sure you use the best documentation person you can find (or maritime lawyer)and make him/her aware of the issues. Ask them straight out if they can ensure resolution of these issues. Modify your contract to stipulate the seller (s) must provide proof of release of all interested parties.... not just "the seller warrants he has the right to sell the vessel... etc"
DOes it seem fishy to anyone that someone brought the boat to the usa with this history only a year ago and now it's for sale...? Maybe the one remaining living owner is trying to sell before the family's get some of the money!

Randy · 03-02-2013, 14:45

Paul L has it right, though you may use this as leverage to reduce the price substantially.

Miniyot · 03-02-2013, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

...DOes it seem fishy to anyone that someone brought the boat to the usa with this history only a year ago and now it's for sale...? Maybe the one remaining living owner is trying to sell before the (other owners)family's get some of the money!

I was thinking the same thing.