I Keep Peeving Tugs.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

This si what confuses people about Roy's simpler explanation.

The simpler explanation is: the toots do not necessarily mean what direction the skipper is turning, but rather what side is the one being passed by the initiating boat. One toot means he's passing on his port side to the second boat.

Simple?

Part of the confusion comes the difference between US Inland and International Rules.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName...Content#rule34

[cappy208]

It;s not really confusion between, the intention is the same, the vessel is turning one way or the other. Intends to turn, IS turning are relatively inconsequential, when trying to educate people as the WHAT IS HAPPENING. Trying not to muck up the waters so bad that people just leave shaking their heads in wonder... (ala Scoobert)

[Mithril Bham]

Depends. Different in constrained waterways. Different in Intercoastal. In San Juan Islands sound signal is prior to turning. At sea at same time as turning. Good for me. Will review myself. Easy to forget when not using all the time.

[SaltyMonkey]

No matter if you're a big three master,
If she has power, she is faster.
Barquentine or sleek square rigger,
If she has power she is bigger.
To you yourself you always say,
“She has power and right of way”.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Roy M

Rebel Heart, I once assisted a sailboater in my yacht club, a guy who'd retired from the Navy as the skipper of a destroyer, to take his boat north. As we entered Santa Barbara Harbor, I pointed out the marine dredge on the port side of the boat, showing its day signals for safe passage. I told him we were in the danger zone (I, too, have held a Masters for a few decades). He said we were on the safe side of the channel. I reminded him I had previously worked on a dredge. He told me I was wrong. Ten seconds later, the dredge started making a lot of noise, a workboat started speeding out to us at flank speed, then, twenty feet ahead of us, a six foot diameter dredging pipe burst to the surface. and we made an emergency turn and followed the day signals for the correct side to pass the dredge. I suspect Scoobert is still on the learning curve as to his responsibilities as a skipper. Hopefully he, any potential crew members on his, or any nearby vessels, will benefit from expanding his awareness in future travels on our waterways.

And he's doing exactly what he needs to do, ask questions when he doesn't know what's going on.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by scoobert

i have 3. still do not see a need for them.
we are in the hudson, people today can swim. i suggest they swim to shore, not newport RI.

the issue i find with handhelds and channel 13 is range. its about 1/4 mile max. i use to use one on my jetski for locking. they suck. yes, i could throw money at the issue, have one installed by the shop, new wires run, ECT. but i will not. not when people can have a daysailor and no radio. ocean, sounds yes, you should have one, small rivers, its questionable.

I take it back. You are not doing the right thing, and those who said you are displaying arrogance are right.

A 45' boat with no radio turned on IS a disaster waiting to happen, and I suspect that the tugboat captain had very good reason for flipping you off.

Turn your dam radio on, use it, and respect those big commercial boats out there. You could end up badly damaged by that big boat, badly injured from the collision, AND successfully sued for the damage that collision did to HIS boat.

And just because a 16' boat CAN legaly be out there with a radio doesn't make it smart.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by micksbuddy

Not that it's really important to this conversation, but the Hudson isn't really a small river. And if your repeated experiences haven't made it clear to you that you need some more knowledge of the rules of the road and to have the ability to communicate with others (particularly when those others have a restricted ability to maneuver), then you're being more than just a little hard headed.

In fact the Hudson is a river with a lot of commercial traffic and to go out there without a radio -- or to leave it off -- well, it's just arrogant to expect everyone to get out of your way just because technically you don't "have" to have a radio.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by carstenb

You should take a course. You pbviously know nothing about sailing and are a danger to everyone else on the water

only the people that do not get out of my way.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by scoobert

only the people that do not get out of my way.

Scoobert, this schtick is getting pretty tired. Perhaps you meant to post in the Joke thread? Otherwise, please pay attention and learn.

[scoobert]

look, here is how i compare this.
i drive a commercial truck for a living.
i weight 40,000# and am 55' long.
i cannot expect cars to understand the finer points of my driving.

when i take a right turn from the left side of the road, i have to look for people passing me on the right. i need to understand, they do not understand.
its ok. i will not demand they take drivers ED. why? because drivers ed will not teach them about driving a tractor trailer.
so yes, it can cost me time, i may have to slow down, or wait for them to move out of the way,
but i know and accept this.

i think tugs need to be of the same mind.
other boats of smaller size do not understand them.
they may have to slow down, it may cost them time.
and in the case of a slow sailboat, the person cannot move quickly.

should i run my radio when i am moving? maybe.
will i run it when i have one in the cockpit? i dont know.
i did not run the one on my powerboat. i find them useless and full of BS.
children yelling nonsense into the mic, coast guard calls every 30 min about a call they got and could not finish the call. i plan to use it in the ocean only.
you can bitch at me, go ahead, i dont care.
i will keep to the right of the channel, and try to stay out of the way of the big ones.

i asked this because i was not clear of the situation, not because i needed lessons on making tugs happy.

frankly i had my fill of tugs when one passed me with no barge on the hudson at 15 knots while i was broken down in my powerboat. i had even shone my light at his cockpit, and he replied by shining his back, and not slowing down. i had hailed him before and asked he slow down because i was broken down and drifting in the channel. nope. and that's when i stopped caring to make tugs happy.

and for the record raku, i am not delusional. i am sure i would not damage a tugboat, or a barge.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Scoobert, this schtick is getting pretty tired. Perhaps you meant to post in the Joke thread? Otherwise, please pay attention and learn.

no. when people say stupid things to me i respond in kind.
when they provide useful information, i absorb it fully.

i think members here are use to trashing someone and them not fighting back, like the guy in NZ, they ripped him up, and he didn't say boo back. not going to happen to this droogy

[Travelnik]

Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies,
Farewell and adieu to you ladies of Spain,
For we’ve received orders for to sail back to Boston,
And so never more shall we see you again.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by cappy208

Scoobert. Here is the dilemma. (And, even though others are making fun of you, in reality almost every one on here is guilty to a certain degree of this myopia)

I was at 'your favorite place' this morning. Guess who I met there. A Northbound yacht. Here are some interesting photos I took.

Photo one. Approaching Coeymans, I am dead center in the channel. The NB SV is under power, and appears to be 'on his side of the channel'


Picture two. Is he really on 'his side'??? No. He is HEADING to his side, but at this distance, This is unknown. (Iin reality, this guy was super, and kept heading away, towards his side of the channel) Often the small boat does the 'nautical squirrel' and waffles. Then I am on the horn with the 5 blasts, danger signal, wake the eff up, and get the eff out of the way. (Note the 'B' can by Coeymans dike. There is an 8' spot right on channels edge. I can't go outside the channel at all 23' draft!!!)

As we come closer, how does this look? Picture 3.

When abeam, he IS on his side, I am in the middle, and all is well.

From the pictures you may see a slightly different perspective from my POV.

ok, i will look at my chart, there may be a curve there that i do not understand. i typically plot a straight line from can to can, as i assume that is the channel.

BTW what the heck do you guys take OUT of albany? i see you going loaded down, but i cannot figure out what we ship out. i thought we were consumers only?

oh, and the photos are not that clear, except the charted ones.
does your radar plot other boats onto the chart?

also do you see a reason he would make a turn to port by the dyke?

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by magellanyachts

Lived in Copenhagen for a year in 1971. Love that place. 5 short blasts is the Danger Signal or also "I doubt your intentions". You are both right.

Sorry, this is not correct. The signal for "Danger" is Uniform. Morse code is dot,dot,dash or 2 short and 1 long on the horn. The flag is Uniform.

5blasts means "I do not understand your intentions"

5 blasts is not a signal for "danger" - even though the USCG likes to think it is.

[cappy208]

Originally Posted by scoobert

ok, i will look at my chart, there may be a curve there that i do not understand. i typically plot a straight line from can to can, as i assume that is the channel.

BTW what the heck do you guys take OUT of albany? i see you going loaded down, but i cannot figure out what we ship out. i thought we were consumers only?

oh, and the photos are not that clear, except the charted ones.
does your radar plot other boats onto the chart?

also do you see a reason he would make a turn to port by the dyke?

As Yoda said: I am niot the Jedi you are looking for.

We load Bakken Crude and it goes to NY, St Johns NB and some to Trainer Pa. As a country we are a net exporter of crude right now!

You said he had the barge on the side. I am assuming when you saw him, you got to see the whole tug as he passed? That would mean he ha the barge on his Stbd side. Like you said in your earlier reply, you don't expect to demand auto drivers to know how to drive a 'big rig' so I will try to be brief.

When you towed your IO along side all the way from shodack landing you noticed it made your sailboat handle differently. Not a lot, but noticeable. The same thing happens to a tug and barge. Except the barge is over 300' long! The barge along side is making the tug 'slew' sideways. up to around 10degrees. SO, although you were looking at the stbd side, he was actually heading away from you. albeit slightly. It takes years to perfect the slide and not run things over. I will say, I have not gotten a return call from the boat. He is probably angry he is the topic of discusson. But he shall remain nameless, since you can't recall who it was!

Since you know he was in a left hand turn, (you intially saw his entire port side) then you saw the stbd for a while, I surmise you were not on the edge as you thought, but 'pushed' him too far over to the dike at Coeymans. He was 'overcorrecting' trying to pull the tug off the white buoys. The overcorrecting is due to the slide he has to account for. I Have had yachts call me up, asking if I was going to run them over. Or asking if he 'mis understood' what whistle we agreed on for passing. What it 'looks' like often is most definitely not what was happening in your case (both your perception and what his perception was)