I am a long time Landed imigrant in Canada,,bought a boat in San Fran..need help

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by Nemo55

. . . When i first researched what i would need to complete my journey,i found no mention whatsoever of the need for a permit,,as i was from a Visa Waiver country.
But lo and behold since i am stepping foot aboard my boat once in San-Rafael this brought up a whole unforseen challenge, as the Visa Waiver does not apply to Boat travel.

Cheechako's advice is best for any initial attempt to do what you wanted to do.

BUT, your "research" must have extremely shallow or faulty, as it is clearly stated in all the Visa pages that "Visa Waiver Program" ONLY applies to to entering and leaving the country via a "scheduled carrier" such as an airline or cruise ship or ferry. It has never applied to private recreational vessels which includes boats and private airplanes. But don't feel bad, I, myself and I am sure many others have made similar mistakes that cost us extra time and grief and expense - because what we wished or believed to be the case - was not.

A one month wait is not bad for the interview and when it is finished you will have a valid Visa to come and go across the border by any means you wish.

There are numerous threads on CF that deal with this exact scenario and in detail describe the requirement for a B1/B2 Visa for entering the USA by private boat.

It is the part where you told the official that you were 1, going to travel on a private recreational vessel and 2, planning to re-enter the USA/Hawaii from a foreign country - Mexico - in that private recreational vessel that was your downfall. Chalk it up to the cost of "education" in dealing with officialdom.

[Mexdon]

Originally Posted by atoll

it would have had to be done anyway if you wanted to sail to hawaii,probably with much more hassel in mexico city

+1. The queues on interview day can be up to 500 people and to get the interview takes anything from 4 to 8 weeks at any time of the year. I would never try and get a B1 B2 visa in Mexico.

[hellosailor]

"Hi Atoll, just checked requirements for Mexico, turns out if you are from Canada, England,or the United State's you don't need a Visa, just your Passport,,"
Nemo, I have to agree with osiris on this. Your research is going to get you deeper into trouble. The rules for how YOU can travel are not the same as the rules for how A BOAT can travel. You want to pick up your boat in Mexico? Ergh, who is going to take it there, when you have no registration, no papers for it? Or have you Canadian-flagged it already?

First you need to register your vessel, and since you are not a US resident you can't do that here, you'll need to put Canadian papers in order. Then you can't re-enter the US, or rather, your BOAT can't re-enter the US, until it has been out of US waters and a cruising permit is (if) granted for you and it.

And the odds are, Mexico may want some paperwork and process as well.

You've got to ask very precise questions if you want officials to give you the "right" answers. Not just "can i go to Hawaii?" but "As an alien, traveling on a private boat, arriving from international waters, how can I visit Hawaii?"

First step, find out how you can re-enter the US, and what you will have to do to legally document and register your boat. You may be able to register it in Canada (while there's a clock ticking in California, regarding registration or taxes) and then depart the US immediately for Mexican waters (without stopping at any US port) IF you have a zarpe (exit clearance) from the US and IF you have eveyrthing in order to enter Mexico. And from there, apply for a US cruising permit. Or, you may be able to get the US permit without leaving, since you are buying the boat here.

But you're going to have more problems, unless your explain the whole picture to each person you need to get answers from. Except Hawaii--you might want to leave that alone, until you figure out how to legally keep the boat someplace in continental waters, first.

And in any case, I hope you've had it surveyed. Getting any used boat ready to go offshore, and doing so reliably, is probably going to take 2 weeks under the best of circumstances, and a shakedown cruise isn't optional. If there's a clock ticking, make sure to allow time for that.

[osirissail]

Basically put - you have two considerations - first you and then the boat.

Sometimes the boat can go places you cannot go and likewise sometimes you can go where the boat cannot go. The trick is to coordinate all the requirements so that you and the boat can go together where you want to go. Welcome to the modern bureaucratic world . . .

[Mexdon]

Nemo55 be very aware of the Homeland security reqirements for aliens with a boat in the USA. Without a cruising permit you have to advise them every time you move the boat or face a USD 5000 fine. I have researched this extremely thoroughly and while it can be done it is not easy. In respect to registering the boat in Canada I would suggest talking to a good broker as to the procedure as they frequently sell to foreigners. Whatever happens I wish you the best of luck.

Also before sailing into Mexico check all the requirements for arriving by sea in a private boat as I now believe on the Pacific side at least you need to acquire a Mexican visa before leaving the USA. (Noonsite has some info on this.)

There is some confusion over this law but I suggest be prepared as each official here has his/her own interpretation. And DON'T forget a fishing licence or it could cost you your boat. Also you should/must get a Zarpe before you head to Mexico. It has not been necessary on the Pacific side but the officials could start enforcing this requirement at any time as they have on the Caribbean side. (again check Noonsite)

[Nemo55]

Man.....i am feeling like i cant find my hat(acceptable substitute) with both hands.
HelloSailor's comments have truly painted the picture in blazing color, Thank you by the way.(makes me think i was reading from totally different pages though.)
And Cheechako's and Osiris's comments as well, If wishes were horses Beggers would ride.........so at this point i could say that "Technically" the previous owner still owns the boat and i am out a whack of cash!!!
Do any of you know if there is one place a fella could go for the correct information here?????,
In my mind what i am trying to do is very simple,,,1. legally become the new owner of my boat. 2. repair,refit,shakedown,and cruise.....and finally...3. bring her home. in between steps 2. and 3. become a full time cruiser.

[osirissail]

For those interested, here is a link to the Searunner trimaran and builder. Searunner Design Partnership - Multihull boat designs in St. Augustine Florida

I would seriously be concerned about taking this boat out into the Pacific Ocean and to Mexico unless the conditions were awfully nice. But that is only my opinion.

Since it appears the boat is being purchased from the builder, I would assume you could get your money back since you have not seen or examined the boat. Or at least put the money in escrow until you can sort out all the details of taking ownership and documenting the boat properly.

[Nemo55]

Thanks Mexdon
I really could go for a huge mug of something very strong right now,,
Very wise and sage words from all of you,and i am very grateful.

Trying to get at this kind of information from the web sites is like pulling teeth, either,,,it's them and the sites are clear as mud,,,or it's me and i am clear as mud and dyslexic,,,,and i wouldn't risk ten dollars on a bet who you think is the more muddy,,

Originally Posted by Mexdon

Nemo55 be very aware of the Homeland security reqirements for aliens with a boat in the USA. Without a cruising permit you have to advise them every time you move the boat or face a USD 5000 fine.

[Nemo55]

Money has already switched hands,no turning back now.
Since i fully believe that i just cant be the only "Non American who has purchased an American built boat,,there must be details of successful transactions someplace.
I believe i have to have the boat de-registered from the USCG before it can be registered in Canada.
Question....cant a foreigner own a U.S. registered boat, which is moored in the U.S.???? if i pays the taxes what is the problem??

Originally Posted by osirissail

For those interested, here is a link to the Searunner trimaran and builder. Searunner Design Partnership - Multihull boat designs in St. Augustine Florida

I would seriously be concerned about taking this boat out into the Pacific Ocean and to Mexico unless the conditions were awfully nice. But that is only my opinion.

Since it appears the boat is being purchased from the builder, I would assume you could get your money back since you have not seen or examined the boat. Or at least put the money in escrow until you can sort out all the details of taking ownership and documenting the boat properly.

[Mexdon]

Originally Posted by Nemo55

Money has already switched hands,no turning back now.
Since i fully believe that i just cant be the only "Non American who has purchased an American built boat,,there must be details of successful transactions someplace.
I believe i have to have the boat de-registered from the USCG before it can be registered in Canada.
Question....cant a foreigner own a U.S. registered boat, which is moored in the U.S.???? if i pays the taxes what is the problem??

Answer to question...NO.

Nemo55 tomorrow I will hunt out some of the research I have done on this subject and get back to you. you are quite right there is a wealth of info available but takes time to sort through opinion for fact.

[bobconnie]

It might save ya a bunch of money if ya hire a broker to get this deal squared away for ya !! it may even be to late for that !! ya need to figure out where your life is gonna go !! if ya want to go to sea ! do what ya got to to fix the problem with the paper work !! the days of leaveing with out proper paper work are long gone !! ya just have to dot the ts and cross the dots ! LOL Im sorry Nemo, ya sorta got yourself in a mess with the best of intensions!! I hope the seller is a good guy cus ya might have to back off this deal if ya can't get the paper ya need !!! Hope ya get it done !

[Nemo55]

Thanks Mexdon
I would like to proceed without stubbing anymore toes (my own included) so any factual info or leads to the same would be a great help right now.

[Nemo55]

Well..you are absolutely right, i tried to be honest with the border people,,and like i was warned (dont tell them everything) i stirred the pot and the soup is hot!
I will make herculean efforts to make this right, i am stuck to my course and have divested myself of all my landlubber possessions (currently staying at my daughters)and yes,,i do remember far simpler days when all ya had to do was worry about how much duty free you where bringing across. i have the USCG title signed from the owner in my possession so i have to pick up the slack from there.

Originally Posted by bobconnie

It might save ya a bunch of money if ya hire a broker to get this deal squared away for ya !! it may even be to late for that !! ya need to figure out where your life is gonna go !! if ya want to go to sea ! do what ya got to to fix the problem with the paper work !! the days of leaveing with out proper paper work are long gone !! ya just have to dot the ts and cross the dots ! LOL Im sorry Nemo, ya sorta got yourself in a mess with the best of intensions!! I hope the seller is a good guy cus ya might have to back off this deal if ya can't get the paper ya need !!! Hope ya get it done !

[Boatguy30]

No offense (or lots of up to you)

But someone on medical disability should not be able to climb aboard a bus let alone sail to Hawaii! If you can do all this, certainly you can do a job!

[Boatguy30]

Originally Posted by osirissail

For those interested, here is a link to the Searunner trimaran and builder. Searunner Design Partnership - Multihull boat designs in St. Augustine Florida

I would seriously be concerned about taking this boat out into the Pacific Ocean and to Mexico unless the conditions were awfully nice. But that is only my opinion.

The Searunner 31 AS DESIGNED and in solid condition (I doubt this one is) is probably the safest multihull near 30' every sailed.

Most of these boats are over 30 years old, plywood, homebuilt, and not fit for a trip to catalina in over 10 knots. There was one that broke apart (and turtled when leeward hull filled with water) in the Med last year in a 25 knot gust.

BTW, I am just finishing a complete refit on a Searunner 34 in St Augustine.