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Old 12-03-2013, 04:07   #76
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

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hellosailor,


The five short blasts is probably the most practical and best recognized signal for danger in "the countries" where I boat. Thanks to all who validated that for me.
Five short blasts does NOT mean "Danger". It means "I do not understand your intentions" such as Are you going to give way or stand on? etc etc.

It is also known as the "Idiot Signal". But it is best not to refer to it as such since calling it the Idiot Signal may make the person on the receiving end bridle (no one is going to call me an idiot!) and therefore exacerbate the situation.

One of the major problems on the water is that many boaters have never learned the signals or colregs. The signals are there for a reason- they allow boats to communicate their intentions to each other.

I realze that this can also be done over the VHF - but not everyone has theirs turned on and channel 16 is sometimes so loaded with persons (who also do not know proper radio procedures) chattering away (ordering pizza etc) that any true marine usage is negated.
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Old 12-03-2013, 08:03   #77
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

As a public service, I'll let you in on the "code" - the good folks at NGA provide the complete International Code of Signals gratis: Maritime Safety Information
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:36   #78
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

We can go on and quote all the relevant even remotely COLREGs, discuss the fine points of semantics ... and still do not address the issue. Meantime, I found this piece of practical advice ... and it works for me:



If one disagrees with this approach or interpretation, one should call USCG and tell them you found it in USCG Boat Crew Seamanship Manual.
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Old 12-03-2013, 13:23   #79
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

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Five short blasts does NOT mean "Danger". It means "I do not understand your intentions" such as Are you going to give way or stand on? etc etc.
Oh?

On the Kahlenberg horn controller, multiple short signals signifies "danger" among the maneuvering signals.

Signal Controller, Fog Signal Timer Model M-511C | Kahlenberg

Use of flags is virtually useless. They take time to deploy, aren't necessarily oriented to permit reading, don't attract attention, few will understand their meaning, and for boat-sized flags aren't visible unless within hailing distance.

Morse sounds for the letter "U" will most likely not be understood. On the other hand, multiple short signals attract attention and signify trouble.
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Old 12-03-2013, 13:27   #80
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

Maybe shooting a flare across their bow may get their attention.
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Old 12-03-2013, 13:37   #81
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

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Maybe shooting a flare across there bow may get their attention.
Make sure it's white. A red one could result in the USCG swarming you.
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Old 12-03-2013, 13:44   #82
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

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Make sure it's white. A red one could result in the USCG swarming you.
That might be a good thing if you help avoid a catastrophic situation.
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Old 12-03-2013, 14:47   #83
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

COLREGS calls for day shapes on boats, too. Never seen them either.

You spend some time in NY Harbor, and wait around until you hear five shorts from soneone, preferably one if the harbor ferries. There's no "I don't understand" about it, five short are used up here to mean "WTF?!" and other colorful phrases that are not listed in COLREGS.

You won't hear five shorts as a casual enquiry, you'll hear them because someone is taking sudden action to avoid ramming you or running you down, and they're not happy about it.

First time I heard five short from one of the harbor ferries it scared the hell out of me as they were about 100 yards behind us right off the Battery in heavy traffic and my immediate thought was "What did we do?!" but it turned out one of the new hotshots on the express commuter ferries figured he must have right of way. Over everyone including the harbor ferry and the Governor's Island ferry. Nope, the big orange boats own that water. They really are riding on rails, they only look like ships, and they ain't stopping for no one. You grant them right of way, whether they have it or not, because they really do always have it.

File the polite "I don't understand" along with the black day shapes in the bow locker. Around here, you're likely to get a visit from the nice men with orange stripes on the bow shortly after. As that express fellow did.
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Old 12-03-2013, 15:42   #84
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

Good thread to help understand what could be done per the OPs scenario. My take -

I'll stick with the COLREGs, as they are the international "standard".

5 short blasts - yes, "danger of collision" or "don't understand your intentions", which can quickly become "danger of collision"

If there is a person in the water, or log, or underwater obstruction (per the OP) that poses a danger to another vessel (or the PIW), 5 short blasts might help awareness, but may not be effective if the other vessel interprets them strictly per the COLREGs.

I haven't been in a situation to warn another vessel, but I think I would try a series of 6 or more short blasts (or even continual blasts) to try to warn another vessel of a potential danger other than collision with my vessel. I think this would also comply with the COLREGS rule 36.
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Old 12-03-2013, 17:12   #85
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

Maybe one should get a high powered bullhorn, and then you can point it their direction and warn them in english, certainly the clueless will understand "DANGER WILL ROBINSON"



Five short horn blows certainly gets your attention, the rest might as well be the above.


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Old 12-03-2013, 17:22   #86
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

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The Flag "D" (Delta) does not mean "danger". It means, "stand clear of me I'm having difficulty maneuvering"
Spot on...and now for a lighter note in the same corner...

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Old 12-03-2013, 22:25   #87
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

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I haven't been in a situation to warn another vessel, but I think I would try a series of 6 or more short blasts (or even continual blasts) to try to warn another vessel of a potential danger other than collision with my vessel. I think this would also comply with the COLREGS rule 36.
I can get use to this one, start with 6 SHORT blasts and continue as needed ...

It's probably the best compliant resolution to my dilemma ... compliant with USCG Seamanship Manual (spirit of the law), and with COLREGS rules (letter of the law).

Thank you all ...

BTW, to make the signaling effective this new 118 dB horn will replace a "sick duck" concealed lame horn on my boat this season ...

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Old 13-03-2013, 03:18   #88
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

Mark -kahlenberg may think 5 short blasts means " danger". Unfortunately, according to international standards it does not. A skipper who knows his (her-no sex discrimination here), signals will interpert 5 blasts as "I do not understand your intentions". He will then look around to see if he is somehow interfering with another ships "stand on"(for example). His reaction will NOT be that he is standing into danger.

Assuming you don't like to hoist/sound "U"(uniform), then you could hoist/sound either:

L(lima)- dot dash dot dot meaning - stop immediately. Or

X(x-ray)- dash dot dot dash meaning - stop what you are doing and pay attention to my signals

Unfortunately many boaters have this idea that knowing the correct signals is quaint or that only grizzled old sea dogs know these. The signals are there for a reason and actually boaters should not be on the water unless they know them. No one would feel comfortable allowing some one to drive on the road if they didn't understand what the roadsigns meant ( well I've some that don't which just goes to show they shouldn't be allowed to drive).

I realize I'm in the minority on this. That doesn't make less true






Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Oh?

On the Kahlenberg horn controller, multiple short signals signifies "danger" among the maneuvering signals.

Signal Controller, Fog Signal Timer Model M-511C | Kahlenberg

Use of flags is virtually useless. They take time to deploy, aren't necessarily oriented to permit reading, don't attract attention, few will understand their meaning, and for boat-sized flags aren't visible unless within hailing distance.

Morse sounds for the letter "U" will most likely not be understood. On the other hand, multiple short signals attract attention and signify trouble.
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Old 13-03-2013, 03:34   #89
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

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With all due respect for the tradition and correctness of the signals you mentioned ... some of the methods you mentioned are outmoded, outdated, or impractical ... sorry.



You are not saying that USCG is totally out of line, and the above would confuse the heck out of you, are you? Just curious ...

Code flags are not like road signs, the buoys and beacons are. Code flags are more like signal lights and warning signs on cars, and can be effectively substituted by other means of communication today.
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Old 13-03-2013, 03:51   #90
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Re: How to warn some other boat?

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With all due respect for the tradition and correctness of the signals you mentioned ... some of the methods you mentioned are outmoded, outdated, or impractical ... sorry.



You are not saying that USCG is totally out of line, and the above would confuse the heck out of you, are you? Just curious ...
A trained yachtsman will interpert the signal to mean some does not understand his intentions. The USCG recommends using it to get someones attention, which it will do, although if there are many boats on the water the trained yachtsman will ignore e signal once he has determined that he is not interfering with anyone.

I have tremendous respect for the USCG and for every other outfit of the same kind around the world. Here, though, they are patchworking something in, because the najority of american boaters have never learned how to sail or the colregs or the signals.

There is another thread regarding the correct pronounciation of PAN (it is not PON, no matter what the USCG says). Intersting reading. Apparently, the rest of the world can say PAN but the US can only pronounce it PON.

The USCG is not infallible. Note that their recomendation says 5 blasts will get someones attention. They do not say the signal means "danger".

The morse signals are actually not outdated nor are they outmoded. Radios have become commonplace, but as I noted earlier, a lot of people use them for errands like ordering a pizza.
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