HK Reg Yacht Entering US - Page 2

Rhosyn Mor · 26-06-2009, 09:06

Angelli,
from what I understand you are not importing your boat into the US and these fees sound out of whack.

hellosailor · 26-06-2009, 11:41

I can undertand taht there may be a question of "importing" since the boat is, after all, not arriving under its own power. In simple terms, it IS being imported as cargo aboard another vessel.

How the laws treat that, and what leeway they have, I leave to the lawyers.

I'd also throw out another warning flag, though. If that boat has an engine on it, and it is in Florida for more than 90 days out of the year, the state of Florida may require that it be REGISTERED in the state of Florida, as a motor vehicle (boat). They don't give any exemptions for boats from other states, I have no idea if they'd give a foreign-flagged vessel any exemption from the requirement. Contact the Florida state DMV and state tax authorities to be certain about that.

Rhosyn Mor · 26-06-2009, 11:54

If the vessel has a cruising permit foreign flagged vessels are exempt for the duration of the permit- a foreign flagged vessel without a cruising permit is liable for duties. One of the reasons for the cruising permit is to allow for a period in which the vessel is tax/ duty free, given that the vessel is forced to leave the country at the end of that period, and that most countries, UK included, do not allow a UK registered vessel to be registered in any other place without first de-listing from the UK register.
The cruising permit has all of this stated on the permit itself
US customs did not ask for payment or say anything to us about a decal.....

angeli · 27-06-2009, 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan

You should not be "importing" the vessel (the quoted customs entry/customs bond fees) - you are just getting a cruising permit that allows the boat to be in the country.

Unless this is a very big yacht a lot of these sound like bogus fees. The "Harbour Maintenance Fee" sounds totally ridiculous for a private yacht just visiting US waters.

Ask your yacht transporter for the reasons for all these fees and who is requiring them. Then contact US customs directly. I imported my Canadian yacht into the US when I sold it in the US, and we did have to pay some customs and bond fees - but that was because we were importing it

Just how big is the boat?

The yacht is only 90 feet. I was able to contact CBP and I was told that since the yacht is coming in as cargo, we don't have to pay for anything as the cruising permit is free of charge. We don't even have to get the decal since the yacht is coming in as cargo. The problem is, this is not documented and everything was done by phone. I need proof as I don't want to lose my job just because of wrong research. I have already sought help from the local US embassy in our country and I am still waiting for their feedback. Time is not on my side as the yacht will be loaded on the 10th of July and should be in the US after 45 days.

angeli · 27-06-2009, 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor

I can undertand taht there may be a question of "importing" since the boat is, after all, not arriving under its own power. In simple terms, it IS being imported as cargo aboard another vessel.

How the laws treat that, and what leeway they have, I leave to the lawyers.

I'd also throw out another warning flag, though. If that boat has an engine on it, and it is in Florida for more than 90 days out of the year, the state of Florida may require that it be REGISTERED in the state of Florida, as a motor vehicle (boat). They don't give any exemptions for boats from other states, I have no idea if they'd give a foreign-flagged vessel any exemption from the requirement. Contact the Florida state DMV and state tax authorities to be certain about that.

Thanks for this and will do as advised

angeli · 27-06-2009, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasco

angeli,

The Homeland Security and Border Protection office at West Palm or Lake Worth, as most cruisers call it, is one of the better run offices I've been in. I'm sure if you call them they will give you all the information you need. This has been my experience when entering on my own hull. The rules for cargo will certainly be a bit different so your freight agent or customs broker might have better info.

Thank you. I already called the CBP office in Florida and I have the information with me. It's just that I need a documented research where it is clearly outlined on what to do. Especially right now that our yacht transporter is saying that we need to pay fees for the import and customs fees.

hellosailor · 27-06-2009, 11:08

" our yacht transporter is saying that we need to pay fees for the import and customs fees. "
There is only one way to be certain of the information. You ask the yacht transporter, who are these fees paid to? And then you write (not phone, not email, but write) to those agencies and ask them for a written reply stating what the correct policy and payment is.

Under US law they are allowed to be wrong, even in writing. But if you have a written statement and you have complied with it, other people (like your transporter) won't argue about it. And if there has been any error, you will not be held liable for penalties, since you have complied with their written policy.

The "next best" but faster solution is, again, to ask your transporter the same quesiton, and then see if you can find published statements on those agencie's web sites. In that case you keep printed copies--and follow up with written mail requesting confirmation that they are correct.

**Hud3** · 27-06-2009, 11:36

Angeli,

Having imported items from the States to Nevis, both by mail, by air freight, and by ship through Nevis' deepwater port, I can say that bringing something in by ship is much more complicated and frought with fees than the other two modes. That's not to say that Nevis and the U.S. have the same procedures, just that shipping is a different beast, as it were.

My point is this: I can personally retrieve my shipments via mail or air freight, pay the applicable customs duties and import fees, and walk out with the item. For items coming in by ship, I cannot do that. I must hire a customs agent to handle the paper work. The transporter may or may not understand what is required. A customs agent will know, because that's what he does for a living, day in and day out.

Contact a customs agent and see what he has to say.

GordMay · 27-06-2009, 13:02

Perhaps we could jointly compile a list of specific recommendations regarding the cheapest & easiest procedures for receiving parcels & mail in foreign ports.

This earlier (2003) post didn’t go very far towards illuminating the issue:
➥ Shipping Packages & Mail

angeli · 06-07-2009, 09:51

Just went things were clearer, something came up again. I sent an email to Dock Wise Yacht Transport inquiring about customs taxes and I was being referred to a forwarding company. This is what the lady has to day with our entry to the US.

> The fact that your yacht is Hong Kong flagged is the main issue at hand.
> Yachts from Hong Kong are not afforded the benefit of having a cruising
> permit in the US as there is no reciprocal agreement for US yachts in Hong
> Kong.

Does anyone know if this is true? Yacht will be loaded onto a ship this Friday going the US and this comes up. We hope someone can advise.

Rhosyn Mor · 06-07-2009, 10:25

Angelli,
Hong kong is NOt on the list of countries for which a cruising permit is automatically granted ( in that they do not offer the reciprocal service to US yachts).
If you are not planning on keeping chinese registration perhaps now is the time to re-register the vessel in another country? and have that paperwork in order before the vessel arrives in the USA

hellosailor · 06-07-2009, 11:35

Gord-
"the cheapest & easiest procedures for receiving parcels & mail in foreign ports." is to open a "full" aka "senior" American Express account. While Amex has many "junior" products and "credit" products on the market today, their real American Express cards (always called charge cards, never credit cards, because they are due and payable in full) offer benefits to travelers including mail and parcel reception at Amex offices around the globe.
These are the cards that typically cost $100 and up per year, AFAIK these services are not available to any of the free ("junior") cards.
That way there is no need to find out if a "post restante" address can be used in any particular country, just if there is an Amex office there.

angeli · 06-07-2009, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhosyn Mor

Angelli,
Hong kong is NOt on the list of countries for which a cruising permit is automatically granted ( in that they do not offer the reciprocal service to US yachts).
If you are not planning on keeping chinese registration perhaps now is the time to re-register the vessel in another country? and have that paperwork in order before the vessel arrives in the USA

How about the customs decal? How does it work? My understanding from the CBP website is that, if we don't qualify we need to get a customs decal and will have to pay 27.50 USD but we will have to enter and clear in every port that we visit without having to pay the port fees of $19 per port.

Vasco · 06-07-2009, 12:40

With the customs decal you don't have to pay clearing in or out fees. When you go to clear in just give them your decal number. You can get a decal online.

angeli · 06-07-2009, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasco

With the customs decal you don't have to pay clearing in or out fees. When you go to clear in just give them your decal number. You can get a decal online.

This will enable the yacht to cruise US waters, right? And, there is no need of re-flagging the vessel as what our forwarder is suggesting??

Thank you.

27-06-2009, 11:36	#23
Hud3 Moderator Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Nevis, West Indies Boat: Island Packet 380 "The Belle of Virginia" Posts: 4,430 Images: 15	Angeli, Having imported items from the States to Nevis, both by mail, by air freight, and by ship through Nevis' deepwater port, I can say that bringing something in by ship is much more complicated and frought with fees than the other two modes. That's not to say that Nevis and the U.S. have the same procedures, just that shipping is a different beast, as it were. My point is this: I can personally retrieve my shipments via mail or air freight, pay the applicable customs duties and import fees, and walk out with the item. For items coming in by ship, I cannot do that. I must hire a customs agent to handle the paper work. The transporter may or may not understand what is required. A customs agent will know, because that's what he does for a living, day in and day out. Contact a customs agent and see what he has to say. __________________ Hud s/y The Belle of Virginia, IP 380 Nevis, West Indies Click to Search Cruisers Forum Archives

27-06-2009, 13:02	#24
GordMay Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W Boat: C.L.O.D. (Cruiser Living On Dirt) Posts: 12,524 Images: 232	Perhaps we could jointly compile a list of specific recommendations regarding the cheapest & easiest procedures for receiving parcels & mail in foreign ports. This earlier (2003) post didn’t go very far towards illuminating the issue: ➥ Shipping Packages & Mail __________________ Gord May ~~_/)_~~ (Gord & Maggie - "Southbound") "If you didn't have time/$ to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"

06-07-2009, 12:40	#29
Vasco Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto in the summer, the Bahamas in wintertime. Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless" Posts: 2,395 Images: 34	With the customs decal you don't have to pay clearing in or out fees. When you go to clear in just give them your decal number. You can get a decal online. __________________ Rick I Toronto

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26-06-2009, 09:06	#16
Rhosyn Mor Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cruising Boat: Jeanneau 38 Gin Fizz- Rhosyn Mor Posts: 330	Angelli, from what I understand you are not importing your boat into the US and these fees sound out of whack.

26-06-2009, 11:41	#17
hellosailor Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,988	I can undertand taht there may be a question of "importing" since the boat is, after all, not arriving under its own power. In simple terms, it IS being imported as cargo aboard another vessel. How the laws treat that, and what leeway they have, I leave to the lawyers. I'd also throw out another warning flag, though. If that boat has an engine on it, and it is in Florida for more than 90 days out of the year, the state of Florida may require that it be REGISTERED in the state of Florida, as a motor vehicle (boat). They don't give any exemptions for boats from other states, I have no idea if they'd give a foreign-flagged vessel any exemption from the requirement. Contact the Florida state DMV and state tax authorities to be certain about that.

26-06-2009, 11:54	#18
Rhosyn Mor Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cruising Boat: Jeanneau 38 Gin Fizz- Rhosyn Mor Posts: 330	If the vessel has a cruising permit foreign flagged vessels are exempt for the duration of the permit- a foreign flagged vessel without a cruising permit is liable for duties. One of the reasons for the cruising permit is to allow for a period in which the vessel is tax/ duty free, given that the vessel is forced to leave the country at the end of that period, and that most countries, UK included, do not allow a UK registered vessel to be registered in any other place without first de-listing from the UK register. The cruising permit has all of this stated on the permit itself US customs did not ask for payment or say anything to us about a decal.....

27-06-2009, 11:08	#22
hellosailor Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,988	" our yacht transporter is saying that we need to pay fees for the import and customs fees. " There is only one way to be certain of the information. You ask the yacht transporter, who are these fees paid to? And then you write (not phone, not email, but write) to those agencies and ask them for a written reply stating what the correct policy and payment is. Under US law they are allowed to be wrong, even in writing. But if you have a written statement and you have complied with it, other people (like your transporter) won't argue about it. And if there has been any error, you will not be held liable for penalties, since you have complied with their written policy. The "next best" but faster solution is, again, to ask your transporter the same quesiton, and then see if you can find published statements on those agencie's web sites. In that case you keep printed copies--and follow up with written mail requesting confirmation that they are correct.

06-07-2009, 09:51	#25
angeli Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 16	Just went things were clearer, something came up again. I sent an email to Dock Wise Yacht Transport inquiring about customs taxes and I was being referred to a forwarding company. This is what the lady has to day with our entry to the US. > The fact that your yacht is Hong Kong flagged is the main issue at hand. > Yachts from Hong Kong are not afforded the benefit of having a cruising > permit in the US as there is no reciprocal agreement for US yachts in Hong > Kong. Does anyone know if this is true? Yacht will be loaded onto a ship this Friday going the US and this comes up. We hope someone can advise.

06-07-2009, 10:25	#26
Rhosyn Mor Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cruising Boat: Jeanneau 38 Gin Fizz- Rhosyn Mor Posts: 330	Angelli, Hong kong is NOt on the list of countries for which a cruising permit is automatically granted ( in that they do not offer the reciprocal service to US yachts). If you are not planning on keeping chinese registration perhaps now is the time to re-register the vessel in another country? and have that paperwork in order before the vessel arrives in the USA

06-07-2009, 11:35	#27
hellosailor Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,988	Gord- "the cheapest & easiest procedures for receiving parcels & mail in foreign ports." is to open a "full" aka "senior" American Express account. While Amex has many "junior" products and "credit" products on the market today, their real American Express cards (always called charge cards, never credit cards, because they are due and payable in full) offer benefits to travelers including mail and parcel reception at Amex offices around the globe. These are the cards that typically cost $100 and up per year, AFAIK these services are not available to any of the free ("junior") cards. That way there is no need to find out if a "post restante" address can be used in any particular country, just if there is an Amex office there.