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Old 24-02-2014, 06:06   #106
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
And quick clarification, I am only proposing insurance as a last resort.

I'm not! I feel everyone should be required to have liability insurance on their boat!
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Old 24-02-2014, 07:47   #107
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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... I have further suggested to my rep that I personally would prefer mandatory watercraft insurance as opposed to more restrictive anchoring laws. This may not be popular with some, but I believe a better long term solution to satisfy the demand of waterfront owners, keep our freedoms and help reduce the number of derelict boats on the waterways.

Pardon my dullness. I have missed the part where it's an either/or deal:
If we have mandatory liability insurance imposed on boaters, then the anchoring laws become less restrictive? That is just not the government way.

Moreover, and again, apologies in advance, how does mandatory boat liability ins:
1. affect demands of waterfront owners
2. help keep our freedoms
3. help reduce the #of derelict boats?

I don't see this as a "state's rights" issue but apparently it is. Is it?

Edit: second question: what happened to the old friendly, funny Sailorboy?
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Old 24-02-2014, 08:00   #108
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

The stated goal of the laws is to "protect marine infrastructure" requiring insurance allow is to anchor as we see fit and the infrastructure owners are assured of reimbursement if we make bad choices.

My view is it's either a bunch more laws or some type or reasonable approach to better each the stated goals.

How many derelict boats do you think will be purchasing insurance? At their next rego renewal if they don't have insurance their boat goes to the landfill.

Many small enterprises are ready and willing to scrap most boats for free or little cost especially considering the current scrap lead prices. See even becomes an economic stimulus.
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Old 24-02-2014, 08:54   #109
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

There are already laws on the book to address derelict boats, theyre just not enforced. If a derelict boat gets a red sticker stuck on it the last owner has 30 days to remove it or come into compliance or face paying for the removal fees which start around $5000. There are people ready and waiting to remove these boats its just the people in charge of enforcing that feel its more important to harass people in transit and do illegal boardings than actually enforce laws.

Theres a couple of reasons the law is being pushed. One is homeowners not wanting to see boats anchored out when they look out their windowl. Another is driving people who would otherwise be homeless away from the area. In St pete at least this is the driving force. Theyve been at war with the homeless population for a long time. Mandatory insurance is just a tax paid to the wealthy.

Insurance takes the liability out of the hands of those who do damage and puts it on the rest of us. If you crash into another boat you should have to pay for it ,period. If you hurt someone else due to your negligence it should hurt you very much. Just because you have insurance doesnt mean your going to give compensation to people you harm, it just shifts liability to a company with huge pockets to pay for lawyers who will find ways not to compensate the victims. I remember an incident where a boat burnt to the water and severely damaged boats around his. Years later the people done the damage were either still fighting in court for their money or accepted settlements that didnt come near paying for the damage that was inflicted. Meanwhile the idiot who didnt maintain his boat which was a piece of junk anyway got off scott free. He should have learned a painful lesson.
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Old 24-02-2014, 08:59   #110
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pirate Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
The stated goal of the laws is to "protect marine infrastructure" requiring insurance allow is to anchor as we see fit and the infrastructure owners are assured of reimbursement if we make bad choices.

If requiring ins would actually allow us to anchor as we see fit, like the bygone days, I'd be all for it.

My view is it's either a bunch more laws or some type or reasonable approach to better each the stated goals.

If only!

How many derelict boats do you think will be purchasing insurance? At their next rego renewal if they don't have insurance their boat goes to the landfill.

I wasn't aware these boaters bothered with registration in the first place. If reg/ins were the central issue, it could have been handled much more appropriately years ago by enforcement of registration laws already on the books.

Many small enterprises are ready and willing to scrap most boats for free or little cost especially considering the current scrap lead prices. See even becomes an economic stimulus.
I hear yer message Boatguy, and wish I shared yer hopeful view. My long observation of this situation (including 20 years in the Dinner Key anchorage area) is that the one and only issue is what the waterfront property owners want: unobstructed view.

I'll be back in Fl this year, as a registered voter and blow boater, with liability ins, and a composting porta potty.

Legal smeagle.

Still, the power guys behind the scenes won't be satisfied. I'd like to see the feds strike down all these anti-anchorage rules/laws/schemes/ruses/whatever but it ain't gonna happen, IMO.
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Old 24-02-2014, 09:35   #111
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

Now if the government actually were to use tax dollars to do something constructive, for the people and wise, they would install mooring balls in certain areas with shore access to amenities and provide them FOR FREE. It would benefit everybody and cost very little in the long run. Instead like saint pete they spend a whole bunch of money on a mooring field and charge rates that are on par with slip rents in the surrounding area. It would save the sea bottom, benefit the surrounding businesses, concentrate the boats in one area so less would be in front of peoples waterfronts and minimize the risk to the surrounding marine infrastructure all while actually doing something for the people they are supposedly representing. Look at the friendly relationship beaufort has with the boating public. I respect what theyve done there. Free day dock, free dinghy dock, cheap shower access. Actually doing something for the public instead of acting like the enemy.
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Old 24-02-2014, 09:46   #112
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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Now if the government actually were to use tax dollars to do something constructive, for the people and wise, they would install mooring balls in certain areas with shore access to amenities and provide them FOR FREE. It would benefit everybody and cost very little in the long run.
Whose tax dollars are you talking about? Would they then have to somehow tax boaters?

If they did this, how long do you think it would be before they filled up with derelict boats?

Why not charge for it?

Seems like to me they'd be creating as much of a problem as they were solving. Often it's a fine line between solving a problem and creating another problem.
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Old 24-02-2014, 10:02   #113
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

I'm missing the reason to 'offer' the insurance requirement.

A derelict boat won't have insurance.

What happens with a visiting vessel during the first 90 days prior to FL registration, do they have to have insurance?

IMO, Florida state law is already on the cruiser's side by regulating municipalities wrt creating laws governing anchoring.
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Old 24-02-2014, 10:05   #114
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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IMO, Florida state law is already on the cruiser's side by regulating municipalities wrt creating laws governing anchoring.
I agree. If they left it to municipalities, there would be much more local regulation, and that likely wouldn't be in the boaters' interest.
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Old 24-02-2014, 11:24   #115
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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Whose tax dollars are you talking about? Would they then have to somehow tax boaters?

If they did this, how long do you think it would be before they filled up with derelict boats?

Why not charge for it?

Seems like to me they'd be creating as much of a problem as they were solving. Often it's a fine line between solving a problem and creating another problem.

Derelict boats are easy to deal with, the laws are already in place.

Saint pete effectively kicked out many people that were regular visitors and residents living in boats. I for one spent many many thousands of dollars in nearby grocery stores, chandeleries, hardware stores,laundromats, entertainment venues . I didnt use a penny of the cities infrastructure without paying. Once a week Id pay $5 pumpout, dump trash and fill water tanks, I paid for everything I took. Meanwhile the city was spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on scrap metal structures they call art that could have easily put mooring balls in the harbor; or built a breakwater further out and installed mooring balls in the area around the pier. They did install moorings, they sit empty and are atrophying wether someone uses them or not. They go for about $350 per month.

The money is there, its just squandered. St pete spent hundreds of millions of dollars building the tropicana to lure a baseball team into the area that never amounted to squat, now their talking about tearing it down. This was basically a gift to a millionaire franchise that could have done wonders to improve the town for the average joe. The moneys there, its just given out as favors to selected few.
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Old 24-02-2014, 11:28   #116
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

The pilot program is a "study" on further regulation. It was started when cities complained about the anchoring law passed around 2005 that stripped them of ability to regulate anchoring locally. The goal of the "study" is to come up with ingenious ideas people will accept.

Let's stop the arguing and standup AGAINST the pilot program.

Call your reps and tell them I vote against HB 995 and SB 1126 This will reup the pilot program till July 1, 2017 if they haven't studied enough yet too bad.
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Old 24-02-2014, 11:38   #117
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

Your right, you just touched a nerve advocating mandatory insurance for anything. When I googled the two I got,

HB 995: Revenue-Neutral Tax Reform



and



SB 1126: Unlawful Possession of the Personal Identification Information of Another Person



are those numbers right>
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Old 24-02-2014, 11:44   #118
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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Derelict boats are easy to deal with, the laws are already in place.

Saint pete effectively kicked out many people that were regular visitors and residents living in boats. I for one spent many many thousands of dollars in nearby grocery stores, chandeleries, hardware stores,laundromats, entertainment venues . I didnt use a penny of the cities infrastructure without paying. Once a week Id pay $5 pumpout, dump trash and fill water tanks, I paid for everything I took. Meanwhile the city was spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on scrap metal structures they call art that could have easily put mooring balls in the harbor; or built a breakwater further out and installed mooring balls in the area around the pier. They did install moorings, they sit empty and are atrophying wether someone uses them or not. They go for about $350 per month.
I believe your recommendation was that the moorings should be free.

While there are laws about derelict boats, if the moorings were free how would you know at what point boats became abandoned?

You can make a case about the cost, but I think one can also argue that $350 is cheaper than a local slip in your area. I'm assuming that fee includes some amenities, like pumpouts, toilets, dinghy docks, parking lots, etc.

We would all like for life to be free, but it just isn't -- at least not near civilization. There is a cost for infrastructure, and we all have to somehow share it. We all have different ideas about how much infrastructure we require, but we can't honestly deny the need for it, can we?

I live in Florida, so I am interested in any and all opinions on this. I'm certain that I don't know the real idea or purpose behind the legislation, but right now my impression is that it protects boaters to some degree, and limits local jurisdictions in their ability to regulate transient boaters. If this isn't the case, I'd like to know about it, so I can make informed decisions and votes on the issue.
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Old 24-02-2014, 11:45   #119
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

Sorry it is 955
1126 is correct. This is florida so maybe they reuse the number since they pass so many dumb laws.
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Old 24-02-2014, 11:52   #120
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

IMO... there are great differences between how the different mooring programs have been run. The St. Augustine mooring program is run like a first class resort. The Titusville mooring field not so much (opps... don't call it a "mooring field" its actually a "designated anchorage" that makes you pay for the privilege).

The Titusville marina field is simply dangerous with the wide fetch they have... a great example of how money should be spent on building a breakwater.

In general, I favor mooring balls and feel that boats should be treated like RV's in many ways. Of course, we also need to have anchoring options when the mooring balls ae all taken or not maintained.
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