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Old 29-09-2013, 20:48   #76
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

Places like this in N Fla remind me of what the Keys looked like when Fred Flintstone and I were kids, but it gets pretty cool in the winter.



And these will not stay this way forever.



'
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Old 29-09-2013, 21:51   #77
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

I answered the survey and agree with others that it was poorly worded.

Having said that, remember that regardless of the questions involved there are opportunities to make a point much as the pundits do on the Sunday morning talk shows. Consider the narrative boxes as opportunities to issue well-worded sound bites that illustrate the real issues at hand.

In my case, I pointed out that there are only two valid reasons (because maritime safety can't be determined by the placement of a mooring field) for establishing a mooring field: protection of the subterranean seascape (a la Pennekamp or certain moorings in the Virgins, etc) or because that is the most economical use of space in a harbor that has an extremely high volume of vessel traffic (a la Marathon). The use of mooring fields to enhance the revenue streams of a political entity will only backfire as boaters will seek other venues to spend their money and their time -- consequently requiring that city of town to expend money to maintain an unused or underused field that will slowly decay when they don't do the necessary maintenance, and pose hazards to those who later try to use the facility.
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Old 30-09-2013, 05:30   #78
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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never mind, after reading about the topic on many threads over the last couple of years I believe I finally understand the issue
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Old 13-12-2013, 04:38   #79
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St Petes non compliance with pilot program

Ive read the pilot programs guidelines for St petersburg, it states the anchorage next to the harborage is not included in the area of restrictions for anchoring. What does st pete do?




The buoys say no anchoring , construction zone. There is no construction in the area and the buoys have been in place almost since the pilot program started. St pete used to be a regular stop on my cruising route, it has nice bike trails and used to be a neat place to stop. I will be attending the review of the pilot program with pics of the empty mooring field and non compliance buoys, and by then I will have checked the permit office for construction projects in the basin. Ive sent letters to the city commissioner and his reply was Weve had a %50 increase in mooring rental in the last year. lol it went from one boat to two as of the last time I peeked in there.
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Old 18-12-2013, 14:05   #80
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

Interesting development... Someone has decided to file a federal lawsuit against the city of St. Augustine, and the state of Florida, arguing that the entire pilot program and all anchoring restrictions are an attempt to usurp federal authority over navigable waters.

Cruiser's Net » Archive » Florida Pilot Mooring Fields Program Being Challenged in US Federal Court
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Old 18-12-2013, 14:27   #81
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

I expect they will lose, Don. If the suit is as simple as you make it sound, pretty much all the courts in the US are in agreement that the federal passage right involves vessels "in navigation", that is, bound from here to there while enroute. Anchor overnight, sure. Sojourn for a couple of months? No, no, and no again from all prior rulings.

And then it can get worse, since in some places the bottom is privately owned and held, and you can pass over it--but not touch it, not anchor on it, just keep on moving.

Now, you can say that you need to anchor as a safety matter because your crew is exhausted, but that's a dangerous place to go. Since that would mean you had an inadequate crew and that opens you up to "manifestly unsafe vessel" "improper watch" and other things.

Onceuponatime you could graze your sheep and cattle in Boston Common. Or pitch a tent across from the White House, and walk up and ring Mr. Lincoln's doorbell directly. Just try to convince the Marine guard that you're stopping by to ask Barack if he'd like to go bowling with you tonight. (Actually, I'd think Michele is more likely on that.<G>) Heck, today you can't even DRIVE past the White House, they've literally taken away the public right of way, haven't they?
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Old 18-12-2013, 14:32   #82
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

Maybe they will lose. That's always a possibility. I think this is a good thing, though, in that at least it will clarify the matter.
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Old 18-12-2013, 15:13   #83
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Interesting development... Someone has decided to file a federal lawsuit against the city of St. Augustine, and the state of Florida, arguing that the entire pilot program and all anchoring restrictions are an attempt to usurp federal authority over navigable waters.

Cruiser's Net » Archive » Florida Pilot Mooring Fields Program Being Challenged in US Federal Court
It is going to lose. There are already lots of places in other states that the local govt etc have banned anchoring and the whole bay is covered by moorings. The issue for FL has always been that the authority lays with the State so that prevented the local Cities to make their own rules.
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Old 18-12-2013, 16:17   #84
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

It will be an interesting case. In many parts of Florida, the US Corps of Engineers rules navigable waterways without challenge.

Do cities get a permit from the Corps for their mooring fields and docks?

If they have, then this argument falls apart, as the Federal government, via the Corps, is giving approval.
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Old 18-12-2013, 17:00   #85
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

In most towns, the state "leases" the land to the cities for $0. I reckon they should have to pay a market rate and mooring fields would be totally unsustainable.

In St Augustine, the city claims to "own" the bottom in city limits excepting the areas they're collecting property taxes on that they've "sold" to bottom "owners". In these areas you're also allowed to moor you boat to your dock even if it is in the "special" shellfish harvest area where no other mooring is allowed!

I wish these guys well, but I am dubious of where all the money they hope to raise is going?
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Old 18-12-2013, 17:14   #86
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

And all this crap because city fathers can't/won't deal with the derelict boats one by one. Think of the wasted money.
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Old 18-12-2013, 17:20   #87
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

The derelict boats are long gone. Hence the fear of easing the heavy hand now.
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Old 18-12-2013, 17:21   #88
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

I should say, several have moved N and S of city limits. But lots were hauled and scrapped over the last many years.
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Old 19-12-2013, 08:27   #89
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

I don't know what the outcome will be, but taking it to federal court, as a navigable waters/supremacy issue, is probably exactly where it needed to be to have a definitive ruling.

Deciding issues like this are what courts are for.
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Old 19-12-2013, 08:29   #90
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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It is going to lose. There are already lots of places in other states that the local govt etc have banned anchoring and the whole bay is covered by moorings. The issue for FL has always been that the authority lays with the State so that prevented the local Cities to make their own rules.
You would think riparian shore rights would have been settled by now, but the lawsuits never seem to stop from cities and property owners over that very issue. We have several ongoing where I live right now.
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