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Old 29-09-2013, 17:43   #61
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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Are you serious with this? what about a new toll booth when you back out of your driveway, a bill for every time your kid or grand kid uses the slide at recess?

ENOUGH!
I already pay for that stuff, and so do you.
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Old 29-09-2013, 18:00   #62
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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To equate the way the campers "enjoyed" Marco Island, and the way it's current inhabitants "enjoy" it, proves you have no idea what we are even talking about.

There are almost no marco islands to be camped on anymore, and there will be no anchorages to enjoy.
You need to visit the ~9,000 island south of Marco, lots of camping.

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The Cities will build the mooring fields, completely displacing any spot that will hold an anchor. When funding for maintenance becomes a problem, they will "privatize" them to gain liability release. Free anchorages will then have turned into for profit enterprises, like developed land.
Is that a prediction, or has that happened? I think it can't happen per the submerged land lease.

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Anchorages are free and unregulated, and should remain so, period.

There are plenty of laws already in place to deal with waste and derelict vessels, that need to be enforced. these are just lame excuses to regulate, tax, and sell something that was previously off limits.
I get it, you don't like mooring fields or paying.

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Better still to serve the affluent waterfront owners who are more likely to be campaign contributors than any anchoring cruiser.
Where has the affluent waterfront owners gained? Their view is still full of boats? In fact, more boats in the same space.

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The Survey proves their intentions in black and white, by the questions it literally begs. I am shocked that one of the questions wasn't; "Do you think the mooring fields have helped cruisers stop beating their wives?"

'
I hope you told them the error of their questions.
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Old 29-09-2013, 18:06   #63
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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That's why we live here. And I personally like the publicly managed privately owned model in the NE. The density of the harbors is also totally different.
I don't understand your answer at all, please explain.
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Old 29-09-2013, 18:21   #64
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

A friend who worked with the Florida DNR said this program started over 15 years ago. I worked for the FWC in fisheries research, and have attended the law enforcement meetings.

The State of Florida wrote model legislation for cities and towns to enact over 15 years ago. Florida looks at 4 catagories of boats.

1. Transient vessels. These are OK in their view, and money can be made off them. But the condo owners want no boats in view, and liveaboards are easy scapegoats for pollution.

2 Stationary liveaboards. These are permitted, but the state wants to regulate them. In fact some liveaboards. like the "dirt baggers" in the Keys, use the water for a combination trash can and sewer, and they have high visibility . But cruisers pausing to build up the kitty, are not usually in this class. Local liveaboards appear, to me, to be a mixed bag. The state will tolerate these if no problems, real or political arise.

3. Unoccupied, unattended, anchored vessels. These cause no immediate problems, but the state sees them as as becoming problem vessels. In hurricanes or other problem times they go down. The state wants to remove this class. Removal is cheaper while they are still floating.

4. Sunken derelicts. The state pays tens of thousands to have one of these removed, but has trouble getting funds. Funds usually come as one shot grants. My city even has them in marinas, and we all see them scattered around the coast. When the boats in class 3 sink, the owners run, or claim to have sold them. I know of a dozen within 20 miles of my slip, on beaches, in marshes, and even in channels. The state, with good cause, considers these derelicts eyesores on a par with junk cars.

With decreased tourism and sales tax, Florida is looking for more income, and control, particularly of "tourist" areas. Mooring fields appeal to governments. Our present Governor is very much pro business, pro increased revenues.

With decreasing budgets, the FWC is very aware of legitimate complaints. Your voice is heard, and officers who abuse the public will pay for it.

What can we do? Every bit of trash that goes into the water is against sailors' interests. Actively promoting ourselves as good, money spending residents will help our cause. Informing governments of reality will help counter misinformation.

When boats stopped going to the Bahamas because of huge fees, the fees were reduced. We do have economic clout, and we should let businesses know about it. A boycott by as little as %5 of a business's customers is enough to influence that business, and change their policies.

But the mooring fields are an attempt at both income and control. As cynical as I am, I would guess it is about 50/50 in motivation.
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Old 29-09-2013, 18:35   #65
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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I don't understand your answer at all, please explain.
You were suggesting we aren't real cruisers and don't understand how hard you have it in the NE: we do understand and live here.

I feel local governments spending local state and federal money to put in mooring and hoping they can make enough on fees or sucker the local taxpayers to pay for long term maintenance. Maybe they can scam some more federal money in the future.

. In many NE harbors all the tackle is privately owned. The local town collects a small fee I think $200 in Newport, RI yachting central for a season on say a 35' boat and requires appropriate tackle usually set by a private company. Keeps things nice and tight and everyone happy.

The current system in FL sucks and long-term no one will be happy.
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Old 29-09-2013, 18:36   #66
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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I already pay for that stuff, and so do you.
All the more reason we shouldn't have to shell out extra to spend a quiet night aboard.
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Old 29-09-2013, 18:45   #67
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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You were suggesting we aren't real cruisers and don't understand how hard you have it in the NE: we do understand and live here.

I didn't suggest any such thing.

Maybe someone else will provide a view as to whether the new FL mooring fields presents any issue to a cruiser as compared to anywhere else on the East coast. After I keep reading how it is like it is a known fact, but it doesn't really sound like such to me.
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Old 29-09-2013, 18:47   #68
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

Ok so a "cruiser" to you is anyone with an extra $750 a month to blow on highly mooring?
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Old 29-09-2013, 18:59   #69
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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Ok so a "cruiser" to you is anyone with an extra $750 a month to blow on highly mooring?

I have no idea where you are getting this. Are you just looking for a argument?

Far as your above statement above I would have to say it is completely false. I don't know what a highly mooring is, but when I last looked at the costs of taking a transient mooring in one of the pilot fields in FL it looked a lot less than getting a transient mooring up here in the NE.
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Old 29-09-2013, 18:59   #70
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

A cruiser is just another transient passing though on a tour. Boat, RV, backpack, or bedroll, all the same. You may just want to pass through but no one is interested in letting you sleep in the town square, regardless of what you've brought to sleep in. That worked, more or less, when the population wasn't as dense. But these days? Really?

How's an anchorage or mooring field any different from camping in Town Square?
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Old 29-09-2013, 19:07   #71
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

How it is in the NE has no bearing on this subject.

The old Floridian saying "we don't care how you do it up north", comes to mind.

Florida represents a barrier to coastal passages that is insurmountable, from Fernandina to Perdido is a long way. No NE State is such a barrier. This matters to coastal cruisers everywhere.

Having to budget for marinas or moorings every time you stop, over this distance, is prohibitive to many, and prohibitive to the sensibilities of many more.

Leave Florida alone, enforce the current laws.

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Old 29-09-2013, 19:12   #72
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

"Florida represents a barrier to coastal passages that is insurmountable,"
Nonsense, us Yankees know how to drain a swamp. Sure would surprise a bunch of folks if they woke up and found someone dug a canal on the north side of the border, and turned Florida into an island. And I'd bet a lot of folks would be happier that way on both sides.
Obstacle? No habla "speedbump" up north.
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Old 29-09-2013, 19:14   #73
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

never mind, after reading about the topic on many threads over the last couple of years I believe I finally understand the issue
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Old 29-09-2013, 19:23   #74
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

I GOT IT: free and unrestricted anchoring for all FL registered boats.

No anchoring for out of state regos.

problem solved?
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Old 29-09-2013, 19:35   #75
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

Boot Key Harbor in Marathon florida has had a mooring field for many years, and most people I have heard speak well of it.

But here in North Florida bays, I can anchor almost anywhere, and often on a 4 day trip, I see less than 3 sailboats.
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