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Old 28-09-2013, 11:28   #31
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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I can't see the difference from anchoring 150 ft. from mooring field, how could the anchoring characteristics be that different, or the available amenities.
In Boot Key Harbor, the mooring field takes up almost all of the old harbor, and leaves the only anchorage almost a mile round trip from the dinghy dock.

A difference easy to see, when you are quickly provisioning for a delivery offshore.

Before, during the slow season, one could anchor right by the docks, and the only possibility of being that far was when the place was packed during the high season. Now during the slow season, the anchorer must dinghy past hundreds of empty mooring balls, burning fuel and impacting the precious environment even more.

Another easy difference to discern, and both negatively impacting those that live at anchor.

It's not about the environment, and certainly not about safety, it is purely about condo snobs and their view. The relatively rare indigent cruiser is held up as the boogeyman example, and the rest left to suffer.


I think it's the condos that are ruining the view, I'd rather look at derelict boats. There are plenty of those on mooring balls in Boot Key.


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Old 28-09-2013, 12:00   #32
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

@ Custom 30
Duly noted about distance issues. I have not been to Boot Key in 100 years ! My experience is from mooring fields farther north.
I have also been attacked by "Condo Police", but quickly informed them, and law enforcement, of the current law allowing me to anchor within the prescribed distance,(not sure of distance, I think it is 200 feet or less).
Keep in mind that my opinion is basted on our cruising, which consist of 4-6 months at a mooring ball or marina, then 6 months or so in the islands. So as far as anchoring it is usually an over-night while transiting to and from.
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Old 28-09-2013, 12:39   #33
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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In Boot Key Harbor, the mooring field takes up almost all of the old harbor, and leaves the only anchorage almost a mile round trip from the dinghy dock.

A difference easy to see, when you are quickly provisioning for a delivery offshore.

Before, during the slow season, one could anchor right by the docks, and the only possibility of being that far was when the place was packed during the high season. Now during the slow season, the anchorer must dinghy past hundreds of empty mooring balls, burning fuel and impacting the precious environment even more.

Another easy difference to discern, and both negatively impacting those that live at anchor.

It's not about the environment, and certainly not about safety, it is purely about condo snobs and their view. The relatively rare indigent cruiser is held up as the boogeyman example, and the rest left to suffer.


I think it's the condos that are ruining the view, I'd rather look at derelict boats. There are plenty of those on mooring balls in Boot Key.


'
Since the dinghy dock at BKH costs the same as a mooring ball, why would you anchor?

Apparently you don't spend much time around anchorages like Key West, lots of 'boogeyman' anchored, they're easy to spot as their anchor rode is 8" inches in diameter just below the waterline. At least now they have to prove they've been pumped out every 10 days.

And yes, mooring balls can/do break, but nearly as often as anchors drag.

Did you frequent BKH or Ft. Myers Beach prior to the mooring fields? During season, both were a circus!
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Old 28-09-2013, 16:17   #34
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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Since the dinghy dock at BKH costs the same as a mooring ball, why would you anchor?

Apparently you don't spend much time around anchorages like Key West, lots of 'boogeyman' anchored, they're easy to spot as their anchor rode is 8" inches in diameter just below the waterline. At least now they have to prove they've been pumped out every 10 days.

And yes, mooring balls can/do break, but nearly as often as anchors drag.

Did you frequent BKH or Ft. Myers Beach prior to the mooring fields? During season, both were a circus!

The moorings are not the same price. $75 more a month to hang closer on moorings they have had trouble with.

I'll stick to my tackle and motor/row the extra distance, even though the dinghy fuel might outweigh the $2.50/day savings. I might even anchor in the small area on the other side of the abandoned bridge by Burdines, to get more privacy.

The mooring field (in season) supplies you with lots of close neighbors, if that's the kind of thing you like.

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Old 28-09-2013, 18:28   #35
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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The moorings are not the same price. $75 more a month to hang closer on moorings they have had trouble with.
I didn't consider the month price as you were:

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quickly provisioning for a delivery offshore
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The mooring field (in season) supplies you with lots of close neighbors, if that's the kind of thing you like.
And prior to the mooring field the anchored boats were not close???

It sounds like you dislike a crowded anchorage, not just mooring fields. That's fine, to each their own. But consensus is that mooring field is an improvement.
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Old 28-09-2013, 18:50   #36
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

Dotdun-

It great you're a big fan of the mooring fields and further restrictions on our chosen lifestyle.


I don't have the income to support paying for a mooring whenever I want to stop for the night. My personal concern is that this pilot program is going to be used as and intro to pass a very restrictive state wide law.

further, I believe most towns will lose money long term on mooring fields and there are better ways to get rid of the bum boats.
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Old 28-09-2013, 19:29   #37
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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Dotdun-

It great you're a big fan of the mooring fields and further restrictions on our chosen lifestyle.


I don't have the income to support paying for a mooring whenever I want to stop for the night. My personal concern is that this pilot program is going to be used as and intro to pass a very restrictive state wide law.

further, I believe most towns will lose money long term on mooring fields and there are better ways to get rid of the bum boats.
I hope you filled out the survey and told them.

IMO, there are places for mooring fields and places where they don't belong.

I doubt that any of the mooring fields come close to making money.

Be prepared to voice your opinion in the next legislative session, I would assume the pilot program will be addressed.
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Old 28-09-2013, 20:47   #38
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

I do prefer the quiet fringe of a crowded anchorage. In the busiest season it was never as far as the current anchorage is.

In the off season, the quiet fringe would be an easy row upwind. Now, in the off season it is too far to row in any weather.

It is not about my personal likes. It is about allowing authorities to displace and usurp a resource which belongs to us. Regardless of whether it is in the name of the environment, the condition of boats, or the condo snob's sensibilities.

It would be easy for each municipality along the coast to build an empty mooring field, to satisfy it's shore owning constituency. When we add Georgia's hostility we would then be unable to stay at anchor from Charleston to Mobile Bay.

It's certainly not about my personal likes, if it were there would be no law regarding anchoring anywhere, and there would be dinghy docks everywhere. I am realistic enough to know that even though I filled out the survey and made clear comments, nobody cares what I think. It's not about me.

What it is about is making Florida unfriendly to cruisers who, for preferential or financial reasons live at anchor.

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Old 29-09-2013, 07:16   #39
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

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... It is about allowing authorities to displace and usurp a resource which belongs to us. Regardless of whether it is in the name of the environment, the condition of boats, or the condo snob's sensibilities.
Who is "us"? I assume you are referring to the liveaboard community?

The fact that BKH has a waiting list every season for mooring balls suggests it's popular, at least among cruisers. I would include cruisers in the list of "us". I would hate to see 226 boats anchored in the same amount of space as the mooring field. (actually, that would provide entertainment value )

I don't have a suggestion for the remaining 9-10 months of the year when the mooring field isn't full to make it more "us" friendly. Although one would think price should match demand, I doubt you'll see a price reduction due to 1) it's run by a government agency 2) Monroe county subsidizes the operation.

IIRC, BKH used to have a time limit, but it now appears to have been removed from the latest version of the user agreement. That explains why I see the same boats on the same moorings year after year. Hence, it appears they've become more liveaboard friendly, albeit at $300/month.

I do question the enforcement of liveaboard only rule (no wet storage) when I see boats that appear they haven't been boarded for weeks/months.

I'm confused over exactly what you are after. No crowds, no condos, yet dinghy docks and a variety of businesses for provisioning? One does not happen without the others.

Like I've stated previously, there are reasons for mooring fields. I think in the case of BKH and Ft. Myers Beach, those anchorages overall do a better job serving the boating communities since the mooring fields were installed.

Yes, there will be places where the underlying motives for installing a mooring field are to chase away the 'boogeyman' boat, but these projects come at high cost and municipalities need to think long and hard about delving into such a venture.

Maybe the next set of legislation should include some strict justification for a mooring field (not just to get rid of the boogeyman boat).
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Old 29-09-2013, 07:55   #40
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

Having lived on, cruised and anchored around the Fl. Keys for 20 of the 30 years I have been here I am not opposed to the mooring fields. That being said I am opposed to some of the buffer zones placed around.
In Boot Key Harbor before the mooring field came into being it was a zoo with many wet storage raft-ups that were unattended. Also many situations with many boats tied to a mother boat on one anchor.
I presently live on a mooring in Key West and have not seen any real activity to move boats out of the buffer zone as of yet. One of the benefits I find in the mooring field in Key West is the ease of landing ashore. Since I am still working it gives me a place to park my car, a place to dinghy into, clean showers and a laundry along with weekly pump out.

For those anchored there is a free pump out boat that comes around HAIL Key West Pump Out on channel 16. They will pump out and supply a sticker for you and if one is spending time will put you on regular schedule. They cover all the KW area, Stock Island and the marinas with no pump out facilities.

Yes the KW mooring field is very rough to say the least in anything from the NW to the NE in winds over 15. The mooring are inspected and cleaned every 3-4 months and if the mooring you are on needs repair or replacement the dock master contact you to move to another mooring and red flags the mooring. At present I think there are only 4 moorings that are not usable.
The intent is more with water quality than unsightly boats.
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Old 29-09-2013, 10:55   #41
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pirate Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

Good and helpful post, Sir. KW is definitely a rock and roll open roadstead. I've spent many nights in Hawks Channel too. Haven't got used to it yet on the hook. Maybe one can get some sleep on a mooring.
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Old 29-09-2013, 13:19   #42
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

Boot Key attracts a certain type of hand holding RVer fair weather cruiser type. If there was no mooring field there would be a lot less boats there as there would be the secure Disney type setup to attract people.

You could make the argument they are food for the economy, but I doubt it. You have to have an established full time business to legally cater to the mooring field and you starve the other 8 months out of the year. There was a guy that ran a super outboard and dinghy repair business that couldn't survive due to this dynamic coupled with the economic downturn.

I have personally found the same thing mostly true in St Augustine as most in the mooring field for any length of time are the hang out in a warm cheap place and not really looking to do any serious refitting. All of that is still done in Annapolis or Ft lauderdale.
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Old 29-09-2013, 13:49   #43
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

Boatguy30 I agree with your statement about Boot Key , although in days past it was known as "Chicken Harbor" by the locals. A lot of folks were getting ready to go, but just never did, or go anywhere for that matter. It was a terrible crowded anchorage at that time due to junk on the water. Dinghy dockage was available at Dockside Lounge for a price... they had a good happy hour and 1 showers for a buck a pop with 20-30 folks using it at peak times. Great deal for the marina.
I have been cruising the Keys over 20 yrs. and what is there now is a big improvement
Boot Key has a very large snowbird flock that comes for the winter and travels north when the summer comes on.
I have, still am and always will cruise the Keys on a regular basis and am just providing info on currant state as of now. I think I am much more in tune to what is happening at this time than you are in St Augustine. Every one has an opinion mine happens to be from the area in discussion ... $0 mi. away not from an 8 hr. drive away . When was the last time you cruised on your boat down here?
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Old 29-09-2013, 13:59   #44
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it has not changed much since 2009.

AGAIN, I'm fine with some mooring fields scattered around the state in high use/ problem areas.

the problem is when cities put in fields where there is no demand simply to clear large sections of the waterway. This was done here in Salt Run and also in Sarastoa. It will be done plenty more places if the state allows.
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Old 29-09-2013, 14:05   #45
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Re: Florida Mooring and Anchoring Pilot Program Survey

Boatguy , I'm just giving you the here and now update.

THE ONLY THING THAT DOES NOT CHANGE IS CHANGE

What part of it's 2013 do you not accept, there has been much change in Boot Key Harbor and I personally think it is all to the good. I live 40 mi away and regularly visit friends in the mooring field both by land and by water
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