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Old 26-02-2014, 11:13   #31
h20
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Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

thats the jist, more of the bill in the above link.
LETS pick this a part peice by peice.
It looks like if you are on the boat they can't
do anything. If you go to shore I guess you
have to have a note, be right back, ha, ha.
No, joking aside, lets delve into it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
And in particular, this statute:

327.4105 Pilot program for regulation of mooring vessels outside of public mooring fields.


—The Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, in consultation with the Department of Environmental Protection, is directed to establish a pilot program to explore potential options for regulating the anchoring or mooring of non-live-aboard vessels outside the marked boundaries of public mooring fields.(1) The goals of the pilot program are to encourage the establishment of additional public mooring fields and to develop and test policies and regulatory regimes that:
(a) Promote the establishment and use of public mooring fields.
(b) Promote public access to the waters of this state.
(c) Enhance navigational safety.
(d) Protect maritime infrastructure.
(e) Protect the marine environment.
(f) Deter improperly stored, abandoned, or derelict vessels.

(2) Each location selected for inclusion in the pilot program must be associated with a properly permitted mooring field. The commission, in consultation with the department, shall select all locations for the pilot program prior to July 1, 2011. Two locations shall be off the east coast of the state, two locations shall be off the west coast of the state, and one location shall be within Monroe County. The locations selected must be geographically diverse and take into consideration the various users and means of using the waters of this state.
(3) Notwithstanding the provisions of s. 327.60, a county or municipality selected for participation in the pilot program may regulate by ordinance the anchoring of vessels, other than live-aboard vessels as defined in s. 327.02, outside of a mooring field. Any ordinance enacted under the pilot program shall take effect and become enforceable only after approval by the commission. The commission shall not approve any ordinance not consistent with the goals of the pilot program.
(4) The commission shall:
a) Provide consultation and technical assistance to each municipality or county selected for participation in the pilot program to facilitate accomplishment of the pilot program’s goals.
(b) Coordinate the review of any proposed ordinance with the department; the United States Coast Guard; the Florida Inland Navigation District or the West Coast Inland Navigation District, as appropriate; and associations or other organizations representing vessel owners or operators.
(c) Monitor and evaluate at least annually each location selected for participation in the pilot program and make such modifications as may be necessary to accomplish the pilot program’s goals.

(5) The commission shall submit a report of its findings and recommendations to the Governor, the President of the Senate, and the Speaker of the House of Representatives by January 1, 2014.
(6) The pilot program shall expire on July 1, 2014, unless reenacted by the Legislature. All ordinances enacted under this section shall expire concurrently with the expiration of the pilot program and shall be inoperative and unenforceable thereafter.
(7) Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect any mooring field authorized pursuant to s. 253.77, s. 327.40, or part IV of chapter 373, as applicable, or any lawful ordinance regulating the anchoring of any vessels within the marked boundaries of such mooring fields.
History.—s. 48, ch. 2009-86.
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Old 26-02-2014, 12:16   #32
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Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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Originally Posted by h20 View Post
i thought this part was a little over board:
327.395 Boating safety identification cards.—
(1) A person born on or after January 1, 1988, may not operate a vessel powered by a motor of 10 horsepower or greater unless such person has in his or her possession aboard the vessel photographic identification and a boater safety identification card issued by the commission which shows that he or she has: (a) Completed a commission-approved boater education course that meets the minimum 8-hour instruction requirement established by the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators;
(b) Passed a course equivalency examination approved by the commission; or
(c) Passed a temporary certificate examination developed or approved by the commission.

(2) Any person may obtain a boater safety identification card by complying with the requirements of this section.

That part is already law, and probably a good idea to insist that boaters have a minimal boating safety education.

As far as I know, the only part that's even open for debate is the temporary moorings trial period section.
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Old 02-03-2014, 18:42   #33
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Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

There are quite a few recreational boaters who could use a bit more education. Present company excluded of course.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:52   #34
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Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

The Pilot Program has been a great asset in these respects: municipalities have been granted the best anchoring concession to install moorings, to provide pumpout services, and to collect reasonable rents. BUT: municipalities have also been allowed to create their own parking (anchoring) rules on what are federal waters. The result has been, for all boaters, a weird mishmash of anchoring rules and regs. Currently in Federal Court is a case against City of St Augustine, who would like to prohibit anchoring outside of a navigational channel. A full congressional investigation has been demanded in the complaint. The FWC does NOT enforce these anchoring regs (indeed, they have far more important--and lawful--enforcement to do). No, we don't have to take the bad with the good. Extending the PP just means municipalities should (NOT saying they will...) let their exclusive little rules sink into the mud.
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Old 10-03-2014, 08:04   #35
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Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

Within this thread there's only one reference to the actual bills coming before our legislature. It pertains to F.S. 327.4105 . There are plenty of references in this thread to the innocuous condensation our legislators are presented. Yes, it seems ever so harmless. UNLESS WE SPEAK UP FEW LEGISLATORS WILL BE STUDYING THIS.
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Old 10-03-2014, 08:19   #36
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Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

Please pass this on to other forums. TOMORROW March 11th this will be reviewed. NOW is a timely moment. HB955 and SB1126 are all-inclusive, and they don't need to be defeated. PLEASE PETITION 'STRIKE LINES 8-12 OF HB955 AND SB1126".
FYI the text is
http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...illText/__/PDF
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Old 10-03-2014, 10:55   #37
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Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

I got a request to say WHY do I advocate striking lines 8-12 of FL HB955 and SB1126:
Extending the Pilot Program won't do away with municipal mooring fields, which are a decided advantage.
It will spell an end to disparate no-anchoring rules in 5 different ports. Anchoring sailors have plenty to be concerned with, and fulfilling quirky laws shouldn't be one of them. These no-anchoring rules are created at the whim of local governments, gated community mentality imposing on public domain properties, applied to federally regulated waters. The rules are involved, require a measuring tape: thou shalt not anchor within 50' of the boundary of the San Sebastian, or fifty feet from any marine structure, don't anchor more than 30 days in the municipality.... Yes, one ticket was issued. It's headed for trial in Fed court June 2015.
Ostensibly, this extension is for further data collection. State and local ground forces are being asked to collect data for yet two more years....
There are problems out there with anchored boats in long term storage with little or no oversight. This extension does nothing to solve anything.
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Old 10-03-2014, 18:52   #38
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Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

I hope cruisers are not turned off: this is my fifth post. Here's the text of the bill HB 955
"
HB 955 2014
Page 1 of 24
F L O R I D A H O U S E O F R E P R E S E N T A T I V E S



1 A bill to be entitled
2 An act relating to the Fish and Wildlife Conservation
3 Commission; amending s. 327.355, F.S.; providing that
4 a boating safety course may be offered in a classroom
5 or online; conforming provisions relating to the
6 reassignment of the boating safety program from the
7 Department of Environmental Protection to the
8 commission; amending s. 327.4105, F.S.; requiring the
9 commission to submit an updated report relating to the
10 regulation of mooring vessels; extending the
11 expiration date of the pilot program for the
12 regulation of mooring vessels; amending s. 327.731,
13 F.S.; providing that a boating safety course may be
14 offered in a classroom or online

AND of course HB955 goes on, 24 pages. LINES 8 THRU 12 PERPETUATE A PROBLEM: When they say "extending the expiration date" they've plugged in 2017 to replace 2013. Now, here are concerned cruisers looking at this stuff, and the basic facts are soooo hidden away.... WHATS YOUR CONGRESSMAN GOING TO DO WHEN HE'S FACED WITH THIS??? He needs your help.

Way back at the beginning of this thread it was pointed out that the glossy summary did not seem to be objectionable. Even here, the language doesn't seem to be objectionable. BUT FIVE MUNICIPALITIES HAVE BEEN GIVEN FREE REIN TO CREATE THEIR VERSIONS OF UTOPIA ON THE WATER!!! These are the suits who would command oversight of federal waters, of waters that are part of the Public Trust Doctrine. A concerted response from concerned cruisers will end this charade, this governmental abuse.

The abuse comes in the attempt to regulate anchoring. The problems we ALL cringe over are the absentee anchoring, neglect, wanton derilection we see all too often in sunken and ignored derelicts. I was smacked just five days ago with two partially submerged sailboats in the anchoring basin at Cocoa. NO ONE wants to see that. But do you really think that gathering data for two more years, that two more years of outlandish (I'll call them illegal after the Federal Court decision comes down June 2015) rules create confusion and animus, will solve anything??? Write your reps, clue your friends.
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Old 16-07-2014, 01:53   #39
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pirate Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

Anti-Boating Legislation Defeated in Florida House: BoatUS Urges Caution in Anchoring Fight : BoatUS Press Room

For those of You who don't own and/or cruise in FL., it's become a nightmare. Splashing a 45' Sloop and navigating fm. Pensacola to Naples has included preparatory work of about 10 hours of research to find out WHERE an anchor can be dropped, in Tampa, and Sarasota, and....(well folks, that's just the west coast) if so for how long.

EACH of the "pilot program" municipalities have their own little 'anchoring nazi's' that we've been brought up to speed on, and while derelicts are an issue, keeping my vessel out of harms way, stopping when I can no longer continue, in a safe harbor shouldn't be at the whim of 'local yocals' with (as was addressed formerly) that 'gated community' mentality. Funny thing is that IF You anchor 'just beyond the edge' of their 'designated anchorage', You avoid the 'safety checks' and other ridiculous behavior (albeit being executed by folks with local badges and GUNS operating under the 'color of law'), because (in our case, a Documented Vessel), in US Waters isn't really IN their Jurisdiction.

My stand is that freedom isn't free, pursue the derelict vessel owners, and LEAVE the rest of us the heck alone. It's WHY we're ON a BOAT in the first place (speaking purely for myself here); because we DON'T want to 'interface' with society as a whole, quite similarly to the 'no trespassing' sign(s) at our farm's gate on the terra firma. While I have the most rabid support of anyone for our Law Enforcement Officials on the water, (and Most are being totally reasonable and IGNORING their direction(s) to create grief for the (city or county commission determined) unwanted scallywags among us, the 'selective enforcement' policy leaves the door blatantly wide open for selective abuse, which isn't rampant, and then again, the income tax started out as a mere 1% rate and we see how that worked out, don't we.

Florida NEEDS to sit down at the Tallahassee (state capital) level and remove the ability for local municipalities to govern over property(s) that they have no jurisdiction of; Establish a set of rules statewide and make them law, or get of the way and allow Federal and Maritime law to govern over the navigable waters that these municipalities and counties are seizing control of. Not likely until the Feds insert themselves, which is sad but will be inevitably needed (Because gov.org does what NEEDS to be done, absolutely LAST, while re-arranging deck chairs, landscaping and trying to figure out ways to torture the law abiding, until the derelicts sink...it's just what they do, predictable as sunrise)

Florida did this (outlawing local preemption) when it comes to firearms because the state varies so dramatically from really rural, to major megalopolis, and depending on where You were on a given day, You might or might not, be in violation of unbeknownst to You as a State Citizen, local, municipal ordinances governing possession, carrying, displaying, using, transporting, etc.

While boats that anchor out (rather than docking for municipal fees at the municipal owned marina...starting to see a bit of a 'conflict of interest' here yet?) are owned by far fewer folks than guns, the mentality (of those local yocal municipal administration types) is the same. They have their 'view' to preserve, they OWN IT (that View of the water) and You're messing with it (or worse, 'stealing' revenue fm. them by not using THEIR municipal overpriced marina facilities, etc.) and the mindset is getting more and more volatile.

(SOME OF) Florida wants to be the next Commiefornia. Next they'll be testing for copper in the water near our vessels. (<--probably shouldn't be giving them ideas, huh?) Getting rid of the wasteful failure of this 'pilot program' and outlawing local preemption, while constructing SIMPLE rules statewide for designated (and other) anchorages would be the simple solution. We can never count on the simple solution from government. They will always know better than us, what's best for us.

Sure I typed a bunch...it took far less than the >10 hrs of research for anchoring during an upcoming cruise (and I feel better now, so it was worth it).
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Old 16-07-2014, 04:51   #40
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Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

gee, I went to activecaptain.com and found anchorages in less than 2 minutes
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Old 16-07-2014, 05:57   #41
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Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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gee, I went to activecaptain.com and found anchorages in less than 2 minutes
Yes, but that doesn't mean you can anchor there.

On my trip back from Tarpon springs a week ago we stopped at Dog Island to take a day off. I've been going to Dog Island off and on for most of my life, it's used to be pretty much a deserted island that you could only get there by boat or airplane, anyway it's an island that if your walking the beach your by yourself.
Seems the whole beach now has signs everywhere that it's now some kind of designated sea bird hatching area. What does that mean? I think it means unless you own a house there, keep off of "their" beach?
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Old 16-07-2014, 06:12   #42
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Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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Originally Posted by captmick39 View Post
For those of You who don't own and/or cruise in FL., it's become a nightmare. Splashing a 45' Sloop and navigating fm. Pensacola to Naples has included preparatory work of about 10 hours of research to find out WHERE an anchor can be dropped, in Tampa, and Sarasota, and....(well folks, that's just the west coast) if so for how long.
Sorry that your 10 hours of research has you worked into such a frenzy. I would suggest you actually gain some experience cruising Florida before you continue the 'sky-is-falling' mantra.

You are talking about ~400nm of tidal coastline and you are getting worked up over less than 1nm of it??? Vinoy Basin in St. Pete (not Tampa) and the mooring field in Sarasota? If you actually had experience, you would have discovered lots of other places to anchor in the remaining 399nm.
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Old 16-07-2014, 06:15   #43
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Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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Yes, but that doesn't mean you can anchor there.

On my trip back from Tarpon springs a week ago we stopped at Dog Island to take a day off. I've been going to Dog Island off and on for most of my life, it's used to be pretty much a deserted island that you could only get there by boat or airplane, anyway it's an island that if your walking the beach your by yourself.
Seems the whole beach now has signs everywhere that it's now some kind of designated sea bird hatching area. What does that mean? I think it means unless you own a house there, keep off of "their" beach?
AFAIK, signs on the beach designating the bird hatching area doesn't affect anchoring in the water... ??
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Old 16-07-2014, 07:10   #44
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Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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AFAIK, signs on the beach designating the bird hatching area doesn't affect anchoring in the water... ??
No, and I did of course anchor and spend the night, but I assume it keeps you off the beach? What does it mean anyway? Actually I read about the signs on Active Captain and could see them from my boat so I didn't go ashore like I had planned

Point is what used to be free access is now trying to be controlled, whether it be anchoring out or beach access. Example, up to the mean high tide line the beach is public, but how many resorts have you seen that control the beach all the way to the water because they have a "private beach".

It's not just boating, used to be you could land your airplane almost anywhere on public land in Idaho, Nevada etc., now for some reason that is being shut down and a few groups have been formed to fight this, and they are being successful. If we don't form some kind of group to fight this, we will lose our anchoring "privileges"
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Old 16-07-2014, 07:25   #45
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Re: Florida boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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...how many resorts have you seen that control the beach all the way to the water because they have a "private beach".
None. Beaches in Florida are not private. Period. The law is completely clear on that. If anyone tries to keep you off of a beach, then they are committing a crime. You should call the police and report them.

Note that there is no requirement that they allow you to cross their private property in order to gain access to the beach, and in some ways--in some areas--this may create a de facto private beach. But you can approach from the water, or walking along the beach, and they are committing a crime if they try to stop you.

As for the bird sanctuary, that's a completely different matter. Private property owners cannot create a bird sanctuary on their own, just to keep you off of their island. If you have an issue with the creation of a bird sanctuary, talk to the Fish and Wildlife Commission. Bird sanctuaries serve real and important needs in this state, for preserving our wildlife. Personally, I think we need more of them, not less. As for what exactly it means, again, check with the FWC. Their website has all the details you could ever ask for.
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