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Old 20-08-2014, 17:26   #151
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Re: Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
This thread is confusing derelict boats and regular old people that keep their boats in good shape and like to anchor out. Unfortunately, if the boating community can't effectively agree on or distinguish between the two, how can we expect that the folks asking for new regulations or approving new regulations (and that know nothing about the boating community) be able to make appropriate decisions?

How is this confusing? I see high levels of agreement in this thread about the issue of how the few derelicts or irresponsible boat owners are making it difficult for the majority. If you study the thread you can see how Waterway guide and several others clearly ID that the reg makers exploit the minority as a reason for their overreach. I do appreciate your point though about the need for us to be clear about the issues. This dialogue helps us formulate and clarify our own views and be prepared to exercise our power as FL residents and FL visitor voices to the local government and the FWC.

Let's continue!
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Old 20-08-2014, 17:26   #152
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Re: Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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Personally I do not think Fl needs anything different than the rest of the US.
Navigable waterways are Federally controlled.
Now I am sure you can find anything you want to on the internet, but this explains my point much better than I can
Navigable Waters legal definition of Navigable Waters
Navigable water exist all along both coasts as well as inland, yet aren't under the same restrictions as Florida local communities. What and and why is Florida different?
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Old 20-08-2014, 17:28   #153
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Re: Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Personally I do not think Fl needs anything different than the rest of the US.
Navigable waterways are Federally controlled.
Now I am sure you can find anything you want to on the internet, but this explains my point much better than I can
Navigable Waters legal definition of Navigable Waters
Good link, and that is exactly the point.

Do we, as sailors, want to be dealing with a different set of rules every time we get into a new jurisdiction, never mind a new state?

That would require a noonsite.com just for the USA!
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Old 20-08-2014, 17:33   #154
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Re: Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Personally I do not think Fl needs anything different than the rest of the US.
Navigable waterways are Federally controlled.
Now I am sure you can find anything you want to on the internet, but this explains my point much better than I can
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...vigable+Waters

Really? You don't see the major physical difference between anchoring off of Navarre Beach in the Santa Rosa sound and anywhere in Dade, Broward, Palm Beach and Martin counties?

With that in mind, now think about how common it is for local commissioners to bend or blatantly ignore the facts in pursuit of their own goals.
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Old 20-08-2014, 17:40   #155
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Re: Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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Navigable water exist all along both coasts as well as inland, yet aren't under the same restrictions as Florida local communities. What and and why is Florida different?

Florida should NOT be any different, If I anchor out in a cove in Alabama, Barney has no right to drive up in his Sheriff's boat and demand money from me for doing so, nor any other State or local municapality.

See, I can see requirements or a permit if you want to anchor here, go into town pay your money and in a month or two when we process the permit, you can anchor here, or how about you have to be a rsident?
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Old 20-08-2014, 17:52   #156
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Re: Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

Ya'll seen the thread about the person fined for anchoring in Sicily?
You want that here?
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Old 20-08-2014, 18:14   #157
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Re: Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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Perhaps it would help your understanding if you actually sailed in Floridian waters.
That's exactly why I think non-Floridians should stay out of Florida politics.

This isn't a cruiser issue, this is a Florida political issue.
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Old 20-08-2014, 18:19   #158
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Re: Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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That's exactly why I think non-Floridians should stay out of Florida politics.

This isn't a cruiser issue, this is a Florida political issue.
How is this NOT a cruiser issue?
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Old 20-08-2014, 18:31   #159
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Re: Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

A cruiser issue would concern all cruisers. This issue (the money, not the water) doesn't concern anyone who doesn't cruise in Florida. As long as I stay in Puget Sound, what you charge for anchorages is your affair, not mine. It doesn't become my affair until and unless you start having some kind of negative impact on the water itself. And fees don't. Fees are an economic issue, not an environmental issue.

This is about money, in Florida.

Just to be clear, this is your post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Perhaps it would help your understanding if you actually sailed in Floridian waters. For those of us who do, this is an issue.
You want our help, but only if our "understanding" matches yours? And if it doesn't, it's because we're not local?

You can have it one way or the other, Mr. Moderator. And I agree with you, move to Florida or stay out of Florida politics.

Navigable waters are federal, the local fees and taxes are local. If local fees and taxes are a mess, it's up to local voters to clean it up. It's not up to us.

It's a local mess, not a cruiser mess.
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Old 20-08-2014, 21:10   #160
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Re: Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
So I'm getting a lot of attacks, fine!

I'm still waiting on the why Florida needs special rules different from everywhere else, explain it it for real in a way that isn't just supporting your position of "it does".

Regardless of how the Florida coast is different from the NE, it remains a fact that anchorages in any but isolated "nothing there" area of the NE are controlled by the Harbormaster under local rules setup by the towns etc. Why can not Florida do the same?


Far as the ICW, what are the rules along the Great Loop? Can you anchor anywhere?
Why does Fl have to be like the NE? Why can't the NE be like FL? What makes you think that your way is better? There are a lot of things up north that us Southerners want no part of and it's probably the reverse to a lot of people up north. Doesn't mean that either is right or wrong, just that what applies here may not apply there and vise-verse.
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Old 20-08-2014, 22:04   #161
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Re: Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

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Navigable water exist all along both coasts as well as inland, yet aren't under the same restrictions as Florida local communities. What and and why is Florida different?
RICH NIMBYS with fingers well inserted in local politics? (NIMby=Not in MY back yard)

THere is a free handout leaflet on 'Preemptive derelict Vessel program' from Florida Fish & Wildlife Commission that I picked up in our marina recently which defines a derelict as 'must be left, stored or abandoned in a wrecked or substantially dismantled state. it says too it must have a legal anchor light sunset to sunrise (that could catch a few round here), it must be currently registered.

see some info here Derelict, Abandoned & At Risk Vessels
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Old 20-08-2014, 23:51   #162
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Re: Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

I think one thing we have to be careful about too is that we recognize there's a huge difference between proposals, items for discussion, and laws. To this point nothing drastically reducing or limiting anchoring in Florida has happened. There have been a very few pilot areas. And nothing new has been put into effect on derelict vessels either. Now it's worthwhile voicing opposition but then to characterize the state based on rules or laws that don't exist other than in the imaginations of a few is a bit off target. There are many far less boater friendly states and many that have far fewer areas to anchor.
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Old 21-08-2014, 04:51   #163
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Re: Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

I understand now that the topic is really a rant and isn't met to explain why Florida must be protected from operating like everywhere else. It is just the Wild Wild West of boater anchoring.

Putting the thread on ignore
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Old 21-08-2014, 05:17   #164
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Re: Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

Funny thing is the name of the thread is
"Florida boaters unite"
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Old 21-08-2014, 05:35   #165
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Florida Boaters Unite: defeat HB 955 and SB 1126

With apologies to some who may find offense, this dialogue is not a "rant" as it is a useful public source of comparative views, some conflicting and others confrontational to our long held views on the topic. I for one, respect this unique platform and the willing participants who contribute to the collective knowledge. Yes, even those ideas that may conflict with my own set of mental models that I continue to invest in.

FL coastal areas are as unique a cruising ground as anywhere in the world not to mention the US. What makes it unique is the specific combination of thousands of miles of shoreline spread across three different oceans (Atlantic, Gulf, & the FL Straights as threshold to the Caribbean Sea), climate, population density, per capita income, not to mention the distance between the state's north - south borders and the cultural diversity it contains. Political? Absolutely. A non issue? Definitely not. A matter that can and probably already does impact FL and non FL cruisers, residents and visitors on boats in FL waters? Yes.

FL boaters unite is a good title. It describes all persons on a boat in FL waters.
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