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Old 18-03-2008, 16:23   #1
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Florida AGAIN!!!!!!!!

Well, Our favorite boating state presents us with a new twist. It just seems like every week there is something new. Have a read of the latest proposal at

Cruisers' Net - Western Florida

And see if you are interested in helping once again. Several years back I proposed a total boycott of the state by boaters because they had become so unfriendly. Perhaps it is time to consider such a move again but apparently it might just accomplish their goals. I really am at a loss, and our cruising plans this year include North and South Carolina for the summer then the Bahamas for the winter with as quick a run through the Sunshine State as we can make. We may even try an offshore run directly to the Bahamas.
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Old 18-03-2008, 17:04   #2
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Originally Posted by Chuck Baier View Post
Well, Our favorite boating state presents us with a new twist. It just seems like every week there is something new. Have a read of the latest proposal at

Cruisers' Net - Western Florida

And see if you are interested in helping once again. Several years back I proposed a total boycott of the state by boaters because they had become so unfriendly. Perhaps it is time to consider such a move again but apparently it might just accomplish their goals. I really am at a loss, and our cruising plans this year include North and South Carolina for the summer then the Bahamas for the winter with as quick a run through the Sunshine State as we can make. We may even try an offshore run directly to the Bahamas.

After having lived at anchor here in FL for a few weeks and traveling, I now know what the problem is...

The people on shore don't like the "shanty town" type anchorages in their sight of the water.

I had a nice, long talk with the Miami Beach Police Marine Patrol Unit on this one. These Miami Beach water cops are top notch professionals. They are riding a very fine line between tourists (cruisers that are anchoring) and local waterfront homeowners who are "connected."

There are some very mean home owners who call up the mayor at times when any boat (nevermind the FL shanty towns) anchors in sight of their house. This puts pressure on the marine patrol to enforce the ordinances that were passsed with help of these connected people ashore who don't want their views disturbed by boats anchoring.

My "boat bums" thread comes into play too. There are sunken boats in every harbor. I saw 2 abandoned boats even in the Miami Beach anchorage, which was heavily patroled and in pristine shape with active cruisers. Even with the 7 day limit on anchoring, a couple people abandoned their boats there.

We are the root of our own problems... if we (being boaters) can't clean up our acts as a group, then the govt will continue to clean up our acts for us. Sucks, but looks like that's the way it's going to go.

I know this post isn't 100% on topic for the particular thread or link, but it's important. We are getting regulated out of existance in population centers.
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Old 18-03-2008, 17:29   #3
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We are the root of our own problems... if we (being boaters) can't clean up our acts as a group, then the govt will continue to clean up our acts for us. Sucks, but looks like that's the way it's going to go.
You are correct, and I agree that the Miami water police try to be fair and reasonable (don't ask about the FWC in Ft. Lauderdale). But, we have selective and reasonable ways of singling out and dealing with derelict cars, homes, and public nuisances on land. In contrast, all too often liveaboard cruisers seem to get lumped together and are either banned or forced to move because of some rotten apples or worse, because they 'might' turn out to be one.

Of course, Senator Bennett is among the geniuses who voted to move up the Florida presidential primary in violation of the rules of both political parties. I haven’’t read the exact language, but a 72 hour limit is entirely arbitrary, potentially dangerous and even life threatening, and presumably raises no revenue.

Now if I can stay longer by paying a 'reasonable' fee, well, the state is broke - so maybe this is a revenue raiser. Otherwise, it sounds like a typical Florida "good idea."
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Old 18-03-2008, 17:39   #4
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slomotion, you are correct in that we are all being lumped together. And the unfortunate thing is that there are selective and reasonable ways to deal with the derelict boats already on the books but for some reason the politicians can't seem to use the tools at their disposal and constantly try to re-invent the wheel. Perhaps in our responses to these new events we might point out just what those tools are for them. A concerted effort on the cruising community has seemed to help in the past so perhaps if we stay on top of these situations we just might not get regulated out of US waters. And now we will probably here from the Floriduh property owner.
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Old 20-03-2008, 06:00   #5
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At the risk of repeating what's already been discussed, I'd like to amplify a point here. There are crusiers and there are live aboards. They aren't necessarily the the same animal. Lately, there has been a group of people who obtain a boat to live on as a substitute for a cheap apartment. (not directed at Sean) These vessels appear to be run down and in many cases it would be a definate challenge for them to operate under their own propulsion.

Chuck says it best when he wrote that we are all being lumped together. Frankly, from a legislative standpoint, how could they not?

I believe in unregulated anchoring, period. However, I'm a realist and those days seem to be coming to an end in Florida.
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Old 20-03-2008, 06:20   #6
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At the risk of repeating what's already been discussed, I'd like to amplify a point here. There are crusiers and there are live aboards. They aren't necessarily the the same animal. Lately, there has been a group of people who obtain a boat to live on as a substitute for a cheap apartment. (not directed at Sean)

[said in jest, with a smile]:

Hey! Mine's a day charter boat! I'm moving it from FL to Maine for chartering.


Seriously, though. You're right Rick. It's those "boat bums" that have ruined it in FL for everyone else. Every anchorage I visit, they do not clean themselves or their boats, which are washed up in mangroves, half sunken, etc...

I even saw a catamaran in the Jewfish Creek area that someone was living in, tied to the mangroves, with ONE HULL SUNK! Yup, they just lived in the dry hull. Talk about mold problems. Yikes!

The govt will surely regulate these people away, and us along with them.

Something positive I noticed when talking to police was the enforcement.

The laws are there, but enforcement is something different. The laws seem to be applied well by the marine patrol units in Miami. They evaluate who is on the boat, the condition of the boat and other factors before just blindly following the law.

Once the Miami marine patrol saw my boat (a little dirty), met me (not quite as dirty as the boat) and talked a while, they told me I could basically get "exemptions" forever and stay as long as I'd like in the anchorage. I just had to check in and let them know.

And you know what? I never did check in because I moved on. They probably knew I would anyway...

So as scary as some of the laws are, some municipalities are actually enforcing them in a way that does distinguish between the "boat bums" and the rest of the sailing world.
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Old 20-03-2008, 06:38   #7
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I even saw a catamaran in the Jewfish Creek area that someone was living in, tied to the mangroves, with ONE HULL SUNK! Yup, they just lived in the dry hull.
Maybe he is the poster child for unsinkable Cats?
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Old 20-03-2008, 08:48   #8
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There are more than a few boats that are sitting on the bottom and the folks on board live on the high water mark. And this is my point that there are regulations in place to eliminate these boats but no one wants to tackle that issue. Instead they find it easier to do a blanket legislation to keep everybody out. But in the Floriduh Keys this is tolerated to allow for low income housing so there is someplace for the service industry employees to live other than next door to the new mansions.
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Old 20-03-2008, 09:12   #9
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Being a native Floridian and at the risk of having a quiver full of barbs thrown my way, I am going to say what I have been telling tourists for fifty years:

We have hurricanes that'll blow you away, mosquitos large enough to carry you off, reptiles that will tear your arm off, fish that will eat you and power drunk politicians that'll scare the hell out of you. Florida is not a safe place for the outsider. You really don't want to come here. Stay home where it's safe.

Richard
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Old 20-03-2008, 09:40   #10
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Being a native Floridian and at the risk of having a quiver full of barbs thrown my way, I am going to say what I have been telling tourists for fifty years:

We have hurricanes that'll blow you away, mosquitos large enough to carry you off, reptiles that will tear your arm off, fish that will eat you and power drunk politicians that'll scare the hell out of you. Florida is not a safe place for the outsider. You really don't want to come here. Stay home where it's safe.

Richard
Spoken by a true Floriduh land owner.
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Old 20-03-2008, 10:10   #11
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my scary florida boat (???) story was paying slip fees in a marina by Jacksonville. 4 55 gallon drums lashed together with a plywood platform, and something that looked like a kids playhouse on top, shorepower cable going in the door and window a/c unit hanging off one bulkhead. didn't even make the cut for house boat.
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Old 20-03-2008, 12:43   #12
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Being a native Floridian and at the risk of having a quiver full of barbs thrown my way, I am going to say what I have been telling tourists for fifty years:

We have hurricanes that'll blow you away, mosquitos large enough to carry you off, reptiles that will tear your arm off, fish that will eat you and power drunk politicians that'll scare the hell out of you. Florida is not a safe place for the outsider. You really don't want to come here. Stay home where it's safe.

Richard
I am 5th generation SWFL and not all Floridians feel this way. There would be no place to go if natives didn't welcome visitors......
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Old 15-04-2008, 11:28   #13
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Spoken by a true Floriduh land owner.
Not necessarily.

I understand where he is coming from....as a Florida Native myself. Much of what he says is true...and I am no longer a "land owner", period.

Florida is a unique environment....it has its dangers in several forms. One of the biggest problems is that people come to Florida and try to change the environment....it won't work, and it doesn't. We do have hurricanes, and we have stupid politicians (many of whom were born "up north" ), and some of the people who have relocated down to FL....are dumber than a "bag of hammers" when it comes to the weather.

I know boat owners who have their boats in the same marina as mine....and have cheap, undersized crappy dock lines...and go north in the summer leaving canvas up, sails on their masts and gennies. Some of them came back after Charlie....and "oh-duh"...actually wondered why they had damage, tatters of sails....and trouble getting their claims paid. The same can be said about "homeowners" in this FL. Gotta have a bigger taller house than the next guy..... My mother is still living in the same house since 1960....and its still 100% intact...never any storm damage.... its what we call "early FL not-so-pretty". Its a nice house...pleasant looking... but it would never make Architectural Digests' "home of the month".... but it survives the storms with virtually zero damage....its one story, concrete block with tons of cells in the block poured full of concrete....and its got a very low pitched roof....so it has little wind resistance.

Nowadays....the transplants...even in my coastal area...want to build two story houses...with the second floor made wholly out of wood... oh-duh? Talk about a disaster waiting to happen? I can tell you that no Florida native would do that or even think about it.

For all the actual "faults" the state has....which are relatively few.... Most of them are caused by "carpetbaggers" or transplants who try to reshape Florida into the image of the dump they left up north.....

Sorry to be "blunt"...but thats just "reality".
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Old 15-04-2008, 11:56   #14
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It's a shame Floridians feel that way about northerners. It was the northerners that got you so much equity in your homes. Of course that would be lumping all Floridans together wouldn't it.....lol

Since being in Florida, and spending several seasons going in, and out of Miami to the Bahamas. All the Floridians I have met were pretty nice to me even though I am from California. I took a liking to that Southern hospitality, and just decided to stay.
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Old 15-04-2008, 14:19   #15
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Okay! Let's get some things straight. I live in a mobile home that will blow away during a hurricane. The reason for this, is I want to liveaboard. My wife will not think of moving from her retirement home that we purchased 27 years ago. Something about selling where the children were raised. As a southerner born up north and transplanted to the south, I regret the invention of the airconditioner. With this one invention, scads of northerners moved south. The waterways became crowded with people that could not afford to retire on boats and the boats became junk. So this is not about being a northerner or a southerner but about the airconditioner that ruined all for the Florida Cracker.

John
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