Flag Etiquette Question

[Pete7]

Why are there no pictures in this thread? I'll start it off with a picture of an English Ensign.

Sorry no anchor ball but the yacht is in 2.3m of water and there is another meter of tide to drop in the next hour so not many yachts will be getting close.

Pete

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Please don't fly a ragged US flag, they are cheap and easy to replace, or just don't fly one. This is a good one that will last quite awhile. For some it matters.
Amazon.com : Annin Tough-Tex Woven Polyester Replacement Flag, High Winds 4 by 6 Foot : Patio, Lawn & Garden

For disposal of old US flags contact you local boys scouts. They periodically do flag disposal ceremonies.

[Ukeluthier]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Flag size on sail boats.

Ensign - 1 inch for each foot LOA
All others - .5 inch for each foot LOA

To my eye, this oft-quoted rule of thumb results in ensigns that look far too small for the boat... I think these guidelines were intended to be absolute minimums.

I fly a 24" x 36" ensign on my 19' gaff-rigged catboat which hangs just above the water when flown at the stern, and looks in proportion when flown under sail from the peak of my 270-sq-ft mains'l.

The previous owner's 12" x 18" ensign looked ridiculously puny on the boat.

On my old 45' cutter, I flew a 3' x 5' ensign.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Ukeluthier

To my eye, this oft-quoted rule of thumb results in ensigns that look far too small for the boat... I think these guidelines were intended to be absolute minimums.

I fly a 24" x 36" ensign on my 19' gaff-rigged catboat which hangs just above the water when flown at the stern, and looks in proportion when flown under sail from the peak of my 270-sq-ft mains'l.

The previous owner's 12" x 18" ensign looked ridiculously puny on the boat.

On my old 45' cutter, I flew a 3' x 5' ensign.

Aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder. Personally I like the 1":1' ratio.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Slightly off topic, but I didn't think my query warranted a new thread and it is still about flag ettiquette.

I was puzzled by this combination seen today. A UnionJack was at the stern. I thought that was only used if the sovereign was on board or for naval vessels when the admiral of the fleet was was present - neither seems to apply. On the jackstaff there was a rectangular blue flag with a white cross - looking it up I found it's the flag of the Shetland isles. The Greek courtesy flag was where expected (the huge Greek flag is on the island, not the boat).

Anyone have any ideas what this combo means?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Why are there no pictures in this thread? I'll start it off with a picture of an English Ensign.

Sorry no anchor ball but the yacht is in 2.3m of water and there is another meter of tide to drop in the next hour so not many yachts will be getting close.

Pete

Ooh, you're flying a defaced blue, not the red duster! I didn't know! May I touch you?

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Why are there no pictures in this thread? I'll start it off with a picture of an English Ensign. ...

A British Commonwealth ensign



USA and Alaska State courtesy flags, pilot-on-board flag, Princess private flag.



Anchor ball in designated general (not special) anchorage

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

that yahoo would be me . I even came back to the boat after a month away and discovered I'd forgotten to take down the ensign . . . Didn't bother me overmuch. . .

I've been known to let flags get pretty threadbare too...especially courtesy flags...we have a little collection of them now.

[poiu]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Slightly off topic, but I didn't think my query warranted a new thread and it is still about flag ettiquette.

I was puzzled by this combination seen today. A UnionJack was at the stern. I thought that was only used if the sovereign was on board or for naval vessels when the admiral of the fleet was was present - neither seems to apply. On the jackstaff there was a rectangular blue flag with a white cross - looking it up I found it's the flag of the Shetland isles. The Greek courtesy flag was where expected (the huge Greek flag is on the island, not the boat).

Anyone have any ideas what this combo means?

It says I think - "vote against independence"

I wonder how they manage to get the jackstaff to fly to fly the opposite way from the Union Jack...

[markpierce]

The 36-inch ensign fits my 35-foot boat.

[markpierce]

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Slightly off topic, but I didn't think my query warranted a new thread and it is still about flag ettiquette.



I was puzzled by this combination seen today. A UnionJack was at the stern. I thought that was only used if the sovereign was on board or for naval vessels when the admiral of the fleet was was present - neither seems to apply. On the jackstaff there was a rectangular blue flag with a white cross - looking it up I found it's the flag of the Shetland isles. The Greek courtesy flag was where expected (the huge Greek flag is on the island, not the boat).



Anyone have any ideas what this combo means?

Its means the owner hasn't a clue and is in breach of UK maritime law !!

The Union flag ( its only the Union Jack when flown on a jackstaff ) , which is the national flag of the UK , representing as it does the then 1801 union of Great Britain and Ireland, this flag should NEVER be flown in any maritime capacity on board a leisure vessel. Nor should it be flown as a courtesy flag.

In the UK there are several national maritime ensigns , the common red ensign , the blue ensign , reserved for government vessels or those command by a naval officer, also allowed use of this are a specific number of clubs. ( typically those with a royal warrant )

The most unique is the defaced white ensign reserved for the royal yacht squadron members

Furthermore both UK and Ireland allow the establishment of specific " defaced club ensigns as outlined above these are typically the red or blue ensign defaced with a club ensign. These are /must be worn with the correct club burgee flown from the highest point on the vessel. These ensigns are warranted by the First Sea Lord as substitutes for the ordinary ensign

Interesting Ireland after independence continued this process and while the national flag is the common ensign , a number of defaced blue ensigns with the national flag in the canton and a club emblem elsewhere were issued. This continued the tradition of the Royal Irish clubs which historically flew a UK defaced ensign before independence and hence continued to fly a defaced blue one after independance. These ensigns are warranted by the relevant maritime Minister in power.

I have had the privilege of flying defaced blue ensigns in both countries !

Note that the practice of raising and lowering ones ensign is enshrined in UK maritime law. However in many countries this is not so. For example in Ireland the law refers to it as a means of " identification " and it should be flown whenever the yachts national identify may be doubtful.

Hence if sailing under the red ensign I religiously follow the rules. When under an Irish one I fly it continuously when in port , night and day to correctly proclaim the vessels registry.

Defaced club ensigns are typically issued with specific rules regarding times conditions that they may be flown and in that regard those rules overrule the national default ones.


Dave

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by poiu

It says I think - "vote against independence"

I wonder how they manage to get the jackstaff to fly to fly the opposite way from the Union Jack...

Close to shore the wind was swirling all over. In the shot below the jackstaff flag is limp and the Union Jack is flying the other way. Huge boat .

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Its means the owner hasn't a clue and is in breach of UK maritime law !!

The Union flag ( its only the Union Jack when flown on a jackstaff ) , which is the national flag of the UK , representing as it does the then 1801 union of Great Britain and Ireland, this flag should NEVER be flown in any maritime capacity on board a leisure vessel. Nor should it be flown as a courtesy flag.

First time I have ever seen this on a boat. I wouldn't have though the captain of a boat this size would get it wrong. Thanks for the lengthy explanation.

PS There does seem to be some dispute about the term "Union Flag" or "Union Jack" for the national flag though .

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Ooh, you're flying a defaced blue, not the red duster! I didn't know! May I touch you?

Defaced with a pair of gold crossed swords and the permit kept safely with the ships papers, given my location you never know if the grey funnel mob might pop over and ask.

The warrant is issued to the yacht club or service association not the yacht, they get a permit which has to be renewed every five years or so.

Pete

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Looks somewhat like a mourning to me...