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Old 13-08-2014, 16:03   #271
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
And I can breathe easy knowing I am definitely not anyone's 'subject' .

SWL
You object to being a subject? Are you then content to be subjected to being an object? In this case one of desire it seems from your vast array of fans following your mermaidial exploits on the anchor thread, a thread I can say truthfully, with my hand on my pump, that I only subscribe to for the pictures.

Hopefully Noelex does not object to you being the aforesaid object and that he is not feeling neglected or rejected, as suspected.

Coops.
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Old 13-08-2014, 16:06   #272
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Thank you Hoof. LtCol Starrett had me thoroughly bamboozled calling a pennant a pendant. Particularly when there was gin involved .
So - if he can't even get a simple thing like that right, how much trust do you put in the rest of his document?
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Old 13-08-2014, 16:12   #273
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
SWL- Here is the link to the Weilbach courtesy flag page. The word Gæsteflag means courtesy flag in Danish



Køb alle europæiske flag online hos Weilbach A/S



Entering Gilbraltar, we flew the Jack (see link above). However, I suppose were we to have been completely correct, we should have flown the flag of Gilbralter as shown below:



By the way Double Whiskey - thank you for the support - I was beginning to feel a little lonely. I can see a boat on the other side of the harbour and the sun is above its yardarm - so it is time for a gin

You should have flown the red maritime ensign , not the union flag, when entering gib

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Old 13-08-2014, 16:17   #274
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Sailing into Gilbralter a couple of yeras ago, the marina hand who pointed out our slip and helped with the lines, told us ni no uncerntain terms that the very first thing we had to do was hoist our british courtesy flag ("and I mean before you do anything else!")

Later that day I saw a notice from the Port Captain on the board by the harbour office.

"Any boat not flying the correct courtesy flag is to be denied docking and told to leave the port and not return until they have learned to show the proper respect"

So some do take this very seriously.
one thing i have found after visiting over 90 countries in the world is
:the less important the country, the more important their flag is..............must be a parallel there somewhere
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Old 13-08-2014, 16:17   #275
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

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That is true only if you are visiting a foreign country. Sailing the waters of the country of registration you fly the visitor "courtesy flag" at the starboard spreader IMHO.

What is a visitor courtesy flag and what's it Doing on the starboard spreader

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Old 13-08-2014, 16:18   #276
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
So - if he can't even get a simple thing like that right, how much trust do you put in the rest of his document?
Well, skirts would have shortened dramatically during his lifetime, maybe pennants did too (pendants are apparently dozens of metres long according to Hoof's research ).

As for trusting any document, I am always full of healthy scepticism .
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Old 13-08-2014, 16:20   #277
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
So - if he can't even get a simple thing like that right, how much trust do you put in the rest of his document?
Right On! Way to many things will slip in.
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Old 13-08-2014, 16:28   #278
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Never! I have not yet begun to fight! LOL.



Sorry Lassie - you need to keep reading





The flag that indicates nationality on a ship is called an ensign. As with the national flags, there are three varieties: the civil ensign, flown by private owned vessels; state ensigns (also called government ensigns), flown by government ships; and war ensigns (also called naval ensigns), flown by naval vessels.



You're absolutely correct - the only ENSIGN flown at the starboard spreader can be that of the country being visiited (now read the definitioi of ensign).



An honor flag (or some such including house flags) are not ensigns.



Dame Lassie - I shall also require your sword!

Just to be clear Carsten

A courtesy flag is purely to respect the country whose waters you are in , technically it should be raised as soon as you enter those waters.

Guest flags are NOT courtesy flags. They are honour flags ( and there is doubt about this , personally to me they are bunting )

Hence the courtesy flag flown from the starboard halyard is the ensign of the nation being visited, except where specifically a nation has decided to specify something else.

Hence the national flag may be an ensign , but an ensign may not be a national flag.

So for example visiting the UK , or it's territories, the courtesy flag is ALWAYS the UK maritime ensign and never the Union flag

The same is true for countries like Italy

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Old 13-08-2014, 16:36   #279
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
That's a new one to me.

We have Tanqueray and Bombay Saphhire on offer. G&T preparation is a fine art on board left to my admiral. He freezes the tonic just enough to get it slightly thick, but not too much or tiny shards of ice form. No ice cubes are needed then to dilute it .



You haven't manage to completely distract me though. Why do you think the Pilot/Civil Jack is the right one for foreign ships to fly on their port halyard when they have a UK guest on board? To start with, isn't a jack only flown from the jackstaff? You have me totally befuddled with the terminology now. Hard enough sorting out pennants from pendants, let alone jacks that aren't really jacks .

I suggest you acquire a bottle of Hendersons . Then slice a fresh diagonal slice of cucumber, add ice and tonic to suit the smell of the fresh cucumber is define as one brings the glass to ones lips. One can imagine England triumphant at Lords with that smell ( even if its a scots gin ho ho ) .

The reasoning behind the pilot jack, is that clearly the Union flag is never correctly flown on a leisure vessel. The only version that is a sea flag is the pilot/civil jack. Since it would be highly incorrect to fly the red duster as a honour flag ( marine a foreign vessel visiting the UK with a UK guest. Horrors a red ensign on both spreaders ), those in the know have suggested the civil jack as an acceptable honour flag

It's also been suggested by the RYA that this flag is flown when ones desires to " fly the flag " ie at her Majesties birthday or other national events, but in conjunction with being dressed overall. Hence the reasoning is to never fly the pure Union flag on board

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Old 13-08-2014, 16:48   #280
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
...pendants are apparently dozens of metres long according to Hoof's research...
There's another interesting 'etiquette' question (not sure if it's been covered already in this long thread?)...how big should your vessel's primary flag be?

Our understanding is that tradition (possibly from the Royal Navy's glory days, altho we can point to nothing to prove that) demands a vessel's national flag be one inch for every one foot of vessel length. So our vessel is 13.6M (~44.5') and flies a 1.25M (49"...the closest commercially available size) flag.

Well, that's exhausted us...must be time (soon or somewhere!) to raise our favorite flags...Splice The Mainbrace!!

Click image for larger version

Name:	splice the mainbrace & yards.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	68.4 KB
ID:	86578

We're not big gin drinkers here so the Gin Pennant would be inappropriate, but Splice The Mainbrace covers ALL tastes...

...and for anyone interested in a bit of quick history of Splice The Mainbrace, check it out here...

Splice The Mainbrace Flags, Floating Impressions
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Old 13-08-2014, 16:52   #281
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

when venturing into middle eastern waters carry a ISIL flag and a koran........just in case..
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Old 13-08-2014, 17:01   #282
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

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Originally Posted by D&D View Post
There's another interesting 'etiquette' question (not sure if it's been covered already in this long thread?)...how big should your vessel's primary flag be?

Our understanding is that tradition (possibly from the Royal Navy's glory days, altho we can point to nothing to prove that) demands a vessel's national flag be one inch for every one foot of vessel length. So our vessel is 13.6M (~44.5') and flies a 1.25M (49"...the closest commercially available size) flag.

Well, that's exhausted us...must be time (soon or somewhere!) to raise our favorite flags...Splice The Mainbrace!!

Attachment 86578

We're not big gin drinkers here so the Gin Pennant would be inappropriate, but Splice The Mainbrace covers ALL tastes...

...and for anyone interested in a bit of quick history of Splice The Mainbrace, check it out here...

Splice The Mainbrace Flags, Floating Impressions

I hope your not a UK , it's territories or a Canadian or Aussie vessel. Splice the mainbrace is restricted to the Queen, the a royal family or very senior figures. It would be highly impertinent for you to issue a royal commas ,!!!

Dave


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Old 13-08-2014, 17:01   #283
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

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when venturing into middle eastern waters carry a ISIL flag and a koran........just in case..

Presently I would prefer a brace of F18s

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Old 13-08-2014, 17:13   #284
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I suggest you acquire a bottle of Hendersons . Then slice a fresh diagonal slice of cucumber, add ice and tonic to suit the smell of the fresh cucumber is define as one brings the glass to ones lips. One can imagine England triumphant at Lords with that smell ( even if its a scots gin ho ho ) .
Remember you are speaking to an Aussie here. It is clearly a bottle for Aussies to avoid like the plague if that is the case .

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
The reasoning behind the pilot jack, is that clearly the Union flag is never correctly flown on a leisure vessel. The only version that is a sea flag is the pilot/civil jack. Since it would be highly incorrect to fly the red duster as a honour flag ( marine a foreign vessel visiting the UK with a UK guest. Horrors a red ensign on both spreaders ), those in the know have suggested the civil jack as an acceptable honour flag

It's also been suggested by the RYA that this flag is flown when ones desires to " fly the flag " ie at her Majesties birthday or other national events, but in conjunction with being dressed overall. Hence the reasoning is to never fly the pure Union flag on board
Thanks for the explanation.

To my way if thinking, if a Red Duster is being used as a courtesy flag then I would have thought UK guests were already being honoured (in the most prestigious spot on board after the stern that is reserved for the vessel's ensign) and nothing further would have been required.

Also, it does pose the question that if national flags and ensigns are not appropriate to honour guests, then what should be used for other countries when one of their citizens is a guest on board? Not all countries have a score of flags to choose between.

By the way, did you see the US Power Squadron's Flag Etiquette Committee suggests using the guest country's ensign on the port spreader? Denmark's Sailing Association recommends the national flag on the starboard spreader unless it is in use. It seems to be a new fashion to honour guests on board private vessels and each country is just making up whatever it feels like.
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Old 13-08-2014, 17:41   #285
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Re: Flag Etiquette Question

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Presently I would prefer a brace of F18s

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B52's or black russians are much smoother on the pallet.........

mind you i always transfer my vodka into mineral water bottels when going ashore in fuzzy wuzzie failed states
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