Flag Etiquette Question

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by carstenb

I'd fly whatever their national flag is (I do realize that with all the various UK flags around, I'd almost certainly end up flying an incorrect one).

You might want to check back with the RYA - I think you'll find they agree with me

Here's Wiki's take on this

The priority of hoisting locations depends on the rig of the vessel. With sloops, ketches and schooners the starboard yardarm or spreader of the highest or main mast is the second most honoured position. (That is, after the ensign at the stern.) Next after the starboard spreader is the port spreader. House flags (those defining the owner) are usually flown from the mainmast truck. When a club burgee is flown, it will normally be hoisted to the truck of the most forward mast. On a sloop, then, not having a foremast, the house flag could be moved to the port spreader if the starboard spreader was in use, and a burgee was being flown. On a ketch, the house flag would be moved to the mizzen.

You'll note that they say fly the house flag under the starboard spreader, moving it ot the port spreader if the starboard spreader needs to be used.

We don't need wars, but I've beaten to quarters, cleared for action, had the starboard gun battery loaded and run out. Should you want to strike your colors - I accept the surrender May I have your sword sir!

Well, as usual Dave has the weight of the RYA behind him :
http://www.woodenboats.lt/Knygos%20p...%20Signals.pdf

One thing to consider Carsten, is what constitutes a house flag. You may have to consider striking your own colours and surrendering to Dave when you look up the definition .

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Well, as usual Dave has the weight of the RYA behind him :
http://www.woodenboats.lt/Knygos%20p...%20Signals.pdf

One thing to consider Carsten, is what constitutes a house flag. You may have to consider striking your own colours and surrendering to Dave when you look up the definition .

No way. He's nailed his colours to the mast.

[Prairie Chicken]

Any possibility you folks are both right & differing over national differences?

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Well, as usual Dave has the weight of the RYA behind him :
http://www.woodenboats.lt/Knygos%20p...%20Signals.pdf

One thing to consider Carsten, is what constitutes a house flag. You may have to consider striking your own colours and surrendering to Dave when you look up the definition .

Lassie - I shall still require his sword. In the link you have sent (thank you) on page 14 - under owner or distinguishing flags, it notes that house flags are to be flown under the Starboard spreader, unless this is in use, then it is moved to the port spreader. Which is what I've been noting all along.

So, I'm happy the RYA agrees with me

Just to add to the general confusion here, below please note the two flags. One s the US Navy Jack and the other (really confusing) is known as (wait for it)

The Union Jack!

[Seaworthy Lass]

A quick guide is this reference (the RYA one is lengthy):

http://www.yosc.org.uk/flagetiquette3.pdf

The only area it seems to disagree with the RYA is regarding where signal flags like the Q flag should be flown (the RYA says port halyard if available, only if one is not available does it go below the courtesy ensign on the starboard side).

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Lassie - I shall still require his sword. In the link you have sent (thank you) on page 14 - under owner or distinguishing flags, it notes that house flags are to be flown under the Starboard spreader, unless this is in use, then it is moved to the port spreader. Which is what I've been noting all along.

So, I'm happy the RYA agrees with me

Just to add to the general confusion here, below please note the two flags. One s the US Navy Jack and the other (really confusing) is known as (wait for it)

The Union Jack!

Carsten, I think confusion is arising due to the definition of a house flag. It is not the flag from the country the charterer or guest is a citizen of.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

A quick guide is this reference (the RYA one is lengthy):

http://www.yosc.org.uk/flagetiquette3.pdf

The only area it seems to disagree with the RYA is regarding where signal flags like the Q flag should be flown (the RYA says port halyard if available, only if one is not available does it go below the courtesy ensign on the starboard side).

Interesting. The original link you sent was written by the RYA (1969) and notes (page 14) that House flags (this is Dave's definition of what I, for lack of a better term call an "Honor Flag" (as it is know in Danish)), so apparently they have changed their minds.

The Danish flag etiquette book clearly says Starboard first, retiring to port when the Starboard is needed for anything else. Wiki agrees with this, and the RYA also did in 1969. I wonder what has made them change their minds?

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Carsten, I think confusion is arising due to the definition of a house flag. It is not the flag from the country the charterer or guest is a citizen of.

I'll agree with this. In Denmark it is called an "Honors Flag" - Dave is the one who considers it a House flag. The squabble over this nomenclature nonwithstanding, both flags fly at starboard until that spreader is needed for something else, then the Honor or house flag retires to port.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by carstenb

I'd fly whatever their national flag is (I do realize that with all the various UK flags around, I'd almost certainly end up flying an incorrect one).

You might want to check back with the RYA - I think you'll find they agree with me

Here's Wiki's take on this

The priority of hoisting locations depends on the rig of the vessel. With sloops, ketches and schooners the starboard yardarm or spreader of the highest or main mast is the second most honoured position. (That is, after the ensign at the stern.) Next after the starboard spreader is the port spreader. House flags (those defining the owner) are usually flown from the mainmast truck. When a club burgee is flown, it will normally be hoisted to the truck of the most forward mast. On a sloop, then, not having a foremast, the house flag could be moved to the port spreader if the starboard spreader was in use, and a burgee was being flown. On a ketch, the house flag would be moved to the mizzen.

You'll note that they say fly the house flag under the starboard spreader, moving it ot the port spreader if the starboard spreader needs to be used.

We don't need wars, but I've beaten to quarters, cleared for action, had the starboard gun battery loaded and run out. Should you want to strike your colors - I accept the surrender May I have your sword sir!

I'd fly whatever their national flag

Since the Union flag has no place on a yacht as to fly it is to claim certain privileges, would you fly the red duster, but since that is a maritime ensign, it should never be flown in a "inferior " position

perplexing -?

PS, if you do have the temerity to fly the Union Flag, ensure its the correct way up. country to some, its not symmetrical !!!

dave




From the RYA website

"The port spreaders are used for house flags. A house flag is normally but not always a small rectangular version of a burgee. It may indicate membership of an association (i.e. the RYA) or society or may be to indicate membership of another club should that club have a house flag. More than one house flag may be flown on the port halyard, but with caution as too many might appear vulgar to some."

I like the vulgar bit !

as for

We don't need wars, but I've beaten to quarters, cleared for action, had the starboard gun battery loaded and run out. Should you want to strike your colors - I accept the surrender May I have your sword sir!

Battle of Copenhagen , cough cough, ahem ahem!!!!!!

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Carsten, I think confusion is arising due to the definition of a house flag. It is not the flag from the country the charterer or guest is a citizen of.

Originally Posted by carstenb

I'll agree with this. In Denmark it is called an "Honors Flag" - Dave is the one who considers it a House flag. The squabble over this nomenclature nonwithstanding, both flags fly at starboard until that spreader is needed for something else, then the Honor or house flag retires to port.

The RYA is, however, discussing house flags, not honour flags. In fact, as far as I can see it makes no mention of the term "honour flag" anywhere. All is says is that the practice has sprung up that if a charterer's nationality is is not the same as that of the yacht, then a small courtesy ensign is worn at the port crosstrees.

The RYA makes absolutely no mention of flying a courtesy ensign for a guest on board.

To make it clear, the house flag is not the flag of any nation. It is defined as:
1 A flag with an emblem denoting a commercial house or line to which a merchant ship belongs
2 The personal flag of a yacht owner (indicating associations or clubs he is a member of)

Originally Posted by carstenb

Lassie - I shall still require his sword. In the link you have sent (thank you) on page 14 - under owner or distinguishing flags, it notes that house flags are to be flown under the Starboard spreader, unless this is in use, then it is moved to the port spreader. Which is what I've been noting all along.

So, I'm happy the RYA agrees with me

No, I am afraid the RYA does not agree with you, it is discussing house flags not honour flags .

Ready to strike your colours yet?

PS Interesting discussion. So much I had incorrectly taken for granted just from observing practices currently in use.

[goboatingnow]

The RYA makes absolutely no mention of flying a courtesy ensign for a guest on board.

Interesting point, if one accepts the "bunting" that is a Guest flag, then should one fly the maritime ensign or the national flag. In the case of a UK national onboard , both cause etiquette issues.!!

of course one could fly the St geogres , st andrews or st patricks flags instead, both one is the designation of an "admiral on board" and another is a signal flag. what to do what to do !!!

dave

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....................................

As far as I understand Australia is federal constitutional parliamentary monarchy and the Sovereign is Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God Queen of Australia.

Ok I Googled - What Monty Python Movie did that line come from - LOL...

"So you're my king just because some watery bint touched you with a sword?"

[Scot McPherson]

The holy grail.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by Scot McPherson

The holy grail.

The HOLY COW!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Ok I Googled - What Monty Python Movie did that line come from - LOL...

"So you're my king just because some watery bint touched you with a sword?"

Something like that , not withstanding your comments. QE is the " Queen of Australia " represented by the Gov General.

Dave