Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-08-2014, 16:58   #136
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 6,714
Re: Flag Etiquette Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofsmit View Post
StuM

But can it be untied under load with one hand ?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Looks like ABOK#1212/1214. If so, the answer is yes

SWL - it would be easier to do so if it had "pseudo Franciscan"s on the ends to give a better grip. Check out the knot at ABOK#2004
__________________

__________________
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2014, 17:13   #137
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: Cal 29
Posts: 3,883
pirate Re: Flag Etiquette Question

Would this be called a private signal worn t port?






Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
__________________

__________________
Blue Crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2014, 17:37   #138
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,416
Re: Flag Etiquette Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
Would this be called a private signal worn t port?
No, it's an historic flag as well as a political statement. In domestic USofA waters, there shouldn't be any confusion. It is only secondary to the national ensign flown at the stern.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2014, 18:47   #139
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Flag Etiquette Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
Would this be called a private signal worn t port?

It's. A piece of " bunting " and has no place on the starboard cross trees

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2014, 19:45   #140
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: Flag Etiquette Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofsmit View Post
Ok...... I like the thread drift........ Might have start to a new one ......... Re: poll on seaworthy's swimming attire

Vote : yes
With pictured brief briefs
Vote: yes
El natural
Vote : yes
any picture of seaworthy in skimpy attire is a bonus
Vote: no
I want to talk about flags and really must get a real life away from CF


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Uhhh... You'll notice that "flag" wasn't hoisted leading one to wonder what exactly SWL was wearing (not wearing) while swimming...

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
I'm not sure what british law says, but Danish law requires you to fly your national flag unless you are racing - so if this were in Denmark, the skipper would be in violation of the law (add another couple of dozen lashes).

Furthermore, flying two national flags at the stern where confuses the issue, because no one can tell if he is french or some degenerated brit. (add a couple of dozen more).
So how's that whole "EU" thang working out for ya'll?

Reading this thread just makes me say, "Thank God for Betsy Ross."

When we invade territory all we gotta do is squeeze in another star...

The Brits may have been too kind in their "empire building" with all these county options for flags - LOL...

Now the US states can futz around with flags they can fly at state capitols and schools but that's just for fun - LOL...

Well of course we did have a disagreement with the south at one point...
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 02:59   #141
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,942
Images: 1
Re: Flag Etiquette Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Uhhh... You'll notice that "flag" wasn't hoisted leading one to wonder what exactly SWL was wearing (not wearing) while swimming...





Reading this thread just makes me say, "Thank God for Betsy Ross."

When we invade territory all we gotta do is squeeze in another star...
The US has had its share of flags (I won't bother to post them all due to limited gigabytes on this forum). Suffice to say that when ole' Betsy was sewing away, it was 1 star and 1 stripe for each state. I forget the year, but someone finally woke up and realized that a flag with lots of stripes was going to get rather large. Therefore, by act of congress, the flag has 13 stripes in alternating colors, representing the original 13 colonies/states and 1 star for each state.

Now - when you'all get around to making Puerto Rico a state, you'll have 51 stars which will be a b*tch to arrange symetrically LOL
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 03:31   #142
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post

He had no idea .

OK Carsten. One for you. Who is responsible for flying the correct flag of registration? The owner or the skipper?

(The owner was not on board, the boat was on charter)
I was in Nymhamn a few days ago, next to a gorgeous motor-sailer, wearing a Swedish flag and a U.S. (!!??) courtesy flag. When I asked the skipper why, he replied that it is because his wife is American. So I guess plenty of people make up their own flag etiquette.
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-ętre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 03:37   #143
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,942
Images: 1
Re: Flag Etiquette Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I was in Nymhamn a few days ago, next to a gorgeous motor-sailer, wearing a Swedish flag and a U.S. (!!??) courtesy flag. When I asked the skipper why, he replied that it is because his wife is American. So I guess plenty of people make up their own flag etiquette.
No this actually correct etiquette. If you are sailing in your home waters and have a foreign guest on board that you wish to honor, you can fly their country's flag under the starboard spreader.

If you sail to a third country, then you move the honor flag from the starboard spreader to the port spreader, the starboard spreader being reserved for the courtesy flag of the country you are visiting.

We have american neighbors and when I take them sailing, we fly the stars and stripes from under starboard spreader.

Come sailing with me and I'll be happy to fly the US flag from under the starboard spreader
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 03:59   #144
Moderator
 
Seaworthy Lass's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Boat: Aluminium cutter rigged sloop
Posts: 12,819
Re: Flag Etiquette Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I was in Nymhamn a few days ago, next to a gorgeous motor-sailer, wearing a Swedish flag and a U.S. (!!??) courtesy flag. When I asked the skipper why, he replied that it is because his wife is American. So I guess plenty of people make up their own flag etiquette.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
No this actually correct etiquette. If you are sailing in your home waters and have a foreign guest on board that you wish to honor, you can fly their country's flag under the starboard spreader.
I take it the American wife was back home at the time?
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea." Isak Dinesen
"To me the simple act of tying a knot is an adventure in unlimited space." Clifford Ashley
Seaworthy Lass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 04:03   #145
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post

No this actually correct etiquette. If you are sailing in your home waters and have a foreign guest on board that you wish to honor, you can fly their country's flag under the starboard spreader.

If you sail to a third country, then you move the honor flag from the starboard spreader to the port spreader, the starboard spreader being reserved for the courtesy flag of the country you are visiting.

We have american neighbors and when I take them sailing, we fly the stars and stripes from under starboard spreader.

Come sailing with me and I'll be happy to fly the US flag from under the starboard spreader
Learn something new every day!
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-ętre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 04:26   #146
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Flag Etiquette Question

Quote:
No this actually correct etiquette. If you are sailing in your home waters and have a foreign guest on board that you wish to honor, you can fly their country's flag under the starboard spreader.

If you sail to a third country, then you move the honor flag from the starboard spreader to the port spreader, the starboard spreader being reserved for the courtesy flag of the country you are visiting.

We have american neighbors and when I take them sailing, we fly the stars and stripes from under starboard spreader.

Come sailing with me and I'll be happy to fly the US flag from under the starboard spreader

I'm sorry, the starboard cross trees is the "superior" side and hence should never be used for "house flags , which have the status of "bunting " anyway. Your house flag should always be flown from the Port flag halyard

The primary position on the starboard flag halyard is the courtesy flag, it also carries the signal flags if used

The topmast is not a position of seniority so house and other bunting may be flown there ( typically including club burgees, flown in conduction with a defaced ensign )

personally I like this signal flag

https://www.dropbox.com/s/63dhe60j64...25.26.png?dl=0


Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 04:34   #147
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Flag Etiquette Question

Quote:
So how's that whole "EU" thang working out for ya'll?
Good - Thanks , took the US about 80 years to "settle down", so at about 45 years , we've a bit to go yet !!!



Quote:
Reading this thread just makes me say, "Thank God for Betsy Ross."
When you have a 1000 year or more nautical history, come back to us, OK?

Quote:
When we invade territory all we gotta do is squeeze in another star...
I could make a whole series of nasty modern comments, but hey Im a gentleman.

Quote:
The Brits may have been too kind in their "empire building" with all these county options for flags - LOL...
Choice and variety is the spice of life !!!

Quote:
Now the US states can futz around with flags they can fly at state capitols and schools but that's just for fun - LOL...
I would portend that the overt displays of nationality can be carried too far and get one into trouble

Quote:
Well of course we did have a disagreement with the south at one point...
One that on my recent travels is still reasonably unresolved in places

dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 04:40   #148
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,942
Images: 1
Re: Flag Etiquette Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I'm sorry, the starboard cross trees is the "superior" side and hence should never be used for "house flags , which have the status of "bunting " anyway. Your house flag should always be flown from the Port flag halyard

The primary position on the starboard flag halyard is the courtesy flag, it also carries the signal flags if used

The topmast is not a position of seniority so house and other bunting may be flown there ( typically including club burgees, flown in conduction with a defaced ensign )

personally I like this signal flag

https://www.dropbox.com/s/63dhe60j64...25.26.png?dl=0


Dave
I have to disagree with you here Dave. The Danish book of flag etiquette notes that an honor flag (for a foreign passenger) is correctly flown under the starboard spreader, unless you are sailing in a third country. There it is moved to the port spreader.

It also notes that (I did not say this) that if there are other flags that are to be flown on the starboard side(in your case signal flags), then the honor flag is moved to the port side.
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 04:42   #149
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Flag Etiquette Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
I have to disagree with you here Dave. The Danish book of flag etiquette notes that an honor flag (for a foreign passenger) is correctly flown under the starboard spreader, unless you are sailing in a third country. There it is moved to the port spreader.

It also notes that (I did not say this) that if there are other flags that are to be flown on the starboard side(in your case signal flags), then the honor flag is moved to the port side.
I cannot agree to your contention, I personally never fly VIP flags etc from the starboard trees , Wars in Europe , have been started over less

to me , flags representing the nationalities of those on board are clearly "house " flags and the RYA is clear to to where these are always flown.


For reference, what would you fly if a UK citizen was onboard as a house flag ? ( or for that matter an Italian citizen )


dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 05:10   #150
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,942
Images: 1
Re: Flag Etiquette Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I cannot agree to your contention, I personally never fly VIP flags etc from the starboard trees , Wars in Europe , have been started over less

to me , flags representing the nationalities of those on board are clearly "house " flags and the RYA is clear to to where these are always flown.


For reference, what would you fly if a UK citizen was onboard as a house flag ? ( or for that matter an Italian citizen )


dave
I'd fly whatever their national flag is (I do realize that with all the various UK flags around, I'd almost certainly end up flying an incorrect one).

You might want to check back with the RYA - I think you'll find they agree with me

Here's Wiki's take on this

The priority of hoisting locations depends on the rig of the vessel. With sloops, ketches and schooners the starboard yardarm or spreader of the highest or main mast is the second most honoured position. (That is, after the ensign at the stern.) Next after the starboard spreader is the port spreader. House flags (those defining the owner) are usually flown from the mainmast truck. When a club burgee is flown, it will normally be hoisted to the truck of the most forward mast. On a sloop, then, not having a foremast, the house flag could be moved to the port spreader if the starboard spreader was in use, and a burgee was being flown. On a ketch, the house flag would be moved to the mizzen.

You'll note that they say fly the house flag under the starboard spreader, moving it ot the port spreader if the starboard spreader needs to be used.

We don't need wars, but I've beaten to quarters, cleared for action, had the starboard gun battery loaded and run out. Should you want to strike your colors - I accept the surrender May I have your sword sir!
__________________

__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Flag Etiquette Terry Fallis Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 35 28-11-2013 14:36
Another Flag Etiquette Question BubbleHeadMd Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 11 12-01-2010 17:55
Flag Etiquette (Part 2) Pelagic Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 0 24-02-2008 05:47
Flag Etiquette Alan Wheeler Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 0 24-02-2008 01:46
Flag Etiquette While Cruising Sonosailor Other 25 26-07-2005 00:04



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:10.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.