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Old 30-08-2010, 12:26   #46
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@ boatingwhatever

What I meant to say was that EU registered yachts never shall or will have a license to carry guns aboard for reason of personal protection only.
I should have said that. Ok, my fault.

Visiting yachts with weapons can or may cause problems.There might be a confusion between merchant vessels and pleasure boats.

In any case, having a weapon on board might be a costly affair, especially in the Dutch waters. Under the circumstances.
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Old 30-08-2010, 12:30   #47
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Originally Posted by MacG
...only the outlaws have guns (in the EU).
You know, I really don't wish to offend, but this is simply and completely UNTRUE!!! If you don't know what you are talking about, you would do better to just not post.

Last time I visited France I happened to overhear a couple of fellows talking about hunting, so I asked them some questions about hunting in France. We got into very nice conversation. They ended up inviting me to come with them the next day to the shooting range operated by their hunting club.

Gee, I must have been hallucinating the whole thing, right MacG? There weren't actually a half dozen or so very nice gentlemen, all with their guns, all enjoying a day of shooting, right there in an EU country?

Oh wait! Maybe they were all outlaws. Yeah, that must be it.

SHEESH!
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Old 30-08-2010, 12:30   #48
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Amerikanen met automatisch wapen op Wadden

I wonder if the reporter and/or the authorities are ignorant about firearms. The subject firearm, if a civilian model, has a semi-automatic action, not an automatic (machine-gun) action. That is a HUGE distinction/difference.
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Old 30-08-2010, 12:37   #49
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@ boatingwhatever

What I meant to say was that EU registered yachts never shall or will have a license to carry guns aboard for reason of personal protection only.
I should have said that. Ok, my fault.

Visiting yachts with weapons can or may cause problems.There might be a confusion between merchant vessels and pleasure boats.
more nonsense MacG, Theres no confusion. Most EU countries will not allow you to have a firearm for personal protection thats true. However the rules for vessels with firearms are completely different. Many EU countries dont even require you to license a firearm aboard a vessel, as long as you declare it and it will generally be removed for safe keeping.

EU marine authorities have no porblem with you sailing off over the horizon with a gun. Equally its no problem for me a EU citizen to license a shotgun or a rifle and carry it on my yacht, yet my country actually doesnt require me to license a firearm that is used on a sea going vessel ( as long as I follow the vessel in port rules).

OK get it. Stop making grandisose overarching statements
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Old 30-08-2010, 12:40   #50
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I wonder if the reporter and/or the authorities are ignorant about firearms. The subject firearm, if a civilian model, has a semi-automatic action, not an automatic (machine-gun) action. That is a HUGE distinction/difference.
Its very difficult to license semi-automatic weapons in Europe. Most have very strict conditions or very limited magazine sizes , ie 3 or 5 cartridges. Only a fool would sail with a military looking firearm in European waters, ALso remember that US boat was in terroitorial waters, he should have entered via an entry port and declared the firearm, and it would have been stored until he exited the country,
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Old 30-08-2010, 12:43   #51
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I believe that your extensive body of experience and knowledge will be much more useful to our CF membership; sans the self-satisfied sarcasm.

For instance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Gord, these are regulations pertaining to the temporay importing of firearms, ie where you bring them into the country. Vessels carrying firearms and arriving at a EU country come under completely sperate firearms regulations. Most of what you write is rubbish

For example UK,

"6.12.3 Pleasure craft

Foreign registered pleasure craft temporarily visiting UK waters having arrived directly from a non EU port must declare any firearms held on board on form C1331. Although vessels arriving directly from a EU port are not required to complete form C1331 they must report any firearms held on board. In the case of foreign registered vessels provided any firearms held on board are lawfully owned abroad they may remain on board, under HMRC seal in secured conditions, e.g. metal gun cabinet lockable and bolted to the fabric of the vessel. The vessel must have a 24-hour security watch, its contents not left unsupervised and boarders challenged. If these conditions are not met the firearms are to be detained and removed into safe custody, namely a Queens Warehouse "


You must understand the distinction, importing a firearm is permission to use/own that firearm in the country. Furthermor ethe stipulation you quote for the UK , is commercial importation, for example I cannot buy a firearm over the internet and "import" it into the UK. But if I am a EU citizen I can bring my personal firearms in under the EU firearms passport system, if I am outside the EU I have to complete some paperwork etc. This is not the "importation mentioned in you original article.

Unfortunately you dont understand the issues.
Thanks for the useful information.

A link* to your source would have been much more useful than the unflattering characterization of my contribution as mostly rubbish.

C2-25A: Firearms - Imports: overall controls and policy
* ➥ HM Revenue & Customs

FWIW: 6.12.3 ... [removed into safe custody, namely a Queens Warehouse] goes on to say:
... local police station or firearms dealer or other suitable secure armoury. Any charges arising out of such temporary storage and transportation should be billed to the person in charge of the vessel. The firearms are only to be returned to the vessel when it is commencing a foreign voyage and on condition that should the vessel call at any UK port, report of the firearms must be made again to Customs.
6.12.4 Extended stays

Where a temporarily imported foreign registered commercial vessel or pleasure craft is authorised to remain in UK waters for a purpose or period longer than originally intended or declared, the firearms are to be removed into HMRC custody for safekeeping under detention procedures.

Between quoting the complete applicable section, and linking to the statute, the reader might feel fully informed.To the extent that I didn't have that information when I wrote Firearms Regulations by Country, I apologise.
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Old 30-08-2010, 12:45   #52
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So what I am getting from this thread is I need a gun locker with a false back and a hidden box for my Glock 21 somewhere else on my boat. Any body know where I can get a .50 BMG and a swivel mount for my poop deck? Honestly it's to fight off JAWS.... I don't even get in the tub with out letting a few rounds off into the water, safety first!
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Old 30-08-2010, 12:51   #53
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I further wonder if foreign countries are as lax as the U.S. regarding blackpowder firearms. Two or three Blunderbusses could come in handy. A couple of modern, breach-loading, non-cartridge, blackpowder rifles could also serve.
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Old 30-08-2010, 12:52   #54
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Back in 2005, I wrote:
Over they years I’ve participated in, and listened to, many interesting and spirited (often “heated”) debates on the advisability of carrying firearms aboard a cruising vessel. Aside from anchoring, nothing seems to generate more passion than this important subject. I’ll try to keep my opinions and biases to myself, and merely provide some of the background information that may help to refine your thinking on the subject.

I regret that many of us cannot restrict ourselves to factual contributions, which could have made this evolve into a distinctly useful (almost authoritative) thread.

I include myself.
Ie: “... Every country you visit on your cruise will be less tolerant of guns than is the USA ...” was opinion, not fact.
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Old 30-08-2010, 13:02   #55
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Gordmay, I only made a sarcastic comment, before you made a typical US centric comment in your opening statement, the US rules on visitng yachts with firearms for example are tougher then say most EU countries. If you want a factual thread then dont make pergorative comments.

Secondly most of my comments were not directed at you but at MacG, again making overaching stements ( other posters also attacked him on this , his "outlaw statement etc").


The fact is Gord you cant build an authoritive thread on this subject, it way too complex, the only real advice one can give is " dont bring a GUN on a yacht going overseas" and if you do expect a world of red tape and or pain.

The country by country thing is too complex and there are too many ovrridding rules, for example in the EU anti-terrorism legislation can simpky override everthing ( if the authorities feel you might be a terrorist).

Again sorry about the sarcasim, but dont go generalising on the world outside the US, lots of us feel we also live in the land of the free too.,!!

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Old 30-08-2010, 13:30   #56
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I further wonder if foreign countries are as lax as the U.S. regarding blackpowder firearms. Two or three Blunderbusses could come in handy. A couple of modern, breach-loading, non-cartridge, blackpowder rifles could also serve.
A couple of years back (but still in modern times ) I worked with a fella who was a member of Napoleon's army (re-enactment. I think ).

He was half French (even got conscripted into the Army as a 17 yo - ended a fully trained..........patisserie (cake) chef some things you just can't make up ).........anyway, part of being a member of Napoleons Army involved travelling around Europe meeting Armies of other Nations (and from what I can gather then mainly sitting in fields under canvas and getting p#ssed - apparently the Russians can drink a bit - who'd have guessed )........and that travelling involved taking a fully working Musket all over Europe. No licence required because he was French

One year he decided to bring the gun into Jersey and declared it upon arrival (by commercial boat not plane!). Customs went mental Not so much on being presented with a musket (not a small weapon!) but because it was unlicensed. and to them that was just wrong. it had to be wrong. except as he was a French citizen it wasn't wrong.

The concept of him being allowed to wander freely around Europe with such a weapon and un licensed was simply beyond their comprehension...........and in Jersey our gun laws are not as draconian as the UK, still allowed hand guns. and even tripod mounted weaponary is not verbotten, if a valid reason for owning (although what that reason would be is beyond me - worried about Nazi paratroopers? ).

But the info is not bang up to date, so if seeking to roam Europeland with a musket then perhaps worth a bit more research .......but I mention just to show that attitudes to guns and the practices do vary accross Europe. and can confuse the crap outta the legal bods.
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Old 30-08-2010, 14:17   #57
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How does one come up with a gun license when the home country/state doesn't issue licenses for typical firearms? For instance, California, with about the most strict state-wide gun laws in the country, doesn't issue licenses. Guns are registered, but that's not the same as being licensed with a document one can show a third party proving one's legal right to possess the firearm in question. Licenses are (rarely) given by local government authorities for hidden carry but not for possession.
Good question. I suppose that solutions might include a CCW from a state (many states will allow non-residents to get them, including Florida and Utah, among others - guess which non-resident CCW's I carry?), or a customs export declaration listing the weapons by serial number and stamped by Customs prior to taking them out of the US. This is also useful for bringing them back into the US. I've been told to put each firearm on a separate form 4457, in case one or another is somehow lost.

http://forms.cbp.gov/pdf/CBP_Form_4457.pdf

Or a US $20 in your passport....
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Old 30-08-2010, 14:49   #58
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A link* to your source would have been much more useful than the unflattering characterization of my contribution as mostly rubbish.
Gord I have no desire to continue this ding dong , but you are beginning to treat this like I stood on your favourite toy

I didnt link the whole firearms document, becuase what you dont understand, ( and this is just the UK specific firearms act) is that the subject is far far more complex then simply saying

"countryx , firearms have to be declared"

Their is a whole bank of legislation, the UK firearms legislation and subsequent amendements runs to over 200 pages. IN addition like a lot of EU countries it gives a huge power of interpretation to local police forces and customs, all of which can simply act, in perhaps seemingly contravening firearms acts and just either arrest you , fine you , jail you or detain you etc etc.

This is why I said it is rubbish ( im afraid it is rubbish, and I was replying to your EU thread specifically). You simply dont understand that this subject simply cannot be catagorised like you would like.

All a "gun thread" can really say is (a) do it illegally and risk jail, or (b) do it legally and risk a world of pain and paperwork and possibly jail anyway. In summary DONT BOTHER

Im getting increasing sarky as these threads I dont beleive are really genuine or actually useful to anyone.

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Old 30-08-2010, 15:01   #59
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Gord , apollogies, if I mistook you as a US citizen, I see you are canadian, appologies , I know that thing grates.

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Old 30-08-2010, 15:11   #60
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Thorin, the problem with a hidden compartment is that if you are a US citizen on a US-flagged boat, the USCG require you to register those compartments (or at least did require) and there's a statutory penalty simply for failing to do so. Even if they are empty. That's from the zero-tolerance days on the 80s'.

And then, no matter who you are or where you are, if some nice gent in a uniform finds a hidden compartment--you've just qualified for a full strip search, down to the keel, because everyone knows [sic] hidden compartments are predominently used by smugglers. Gonna make life real tough on yourself, if you think you can hide better than they can seek.

There are some places that don't allow weapons. Others will arrest you for carrying liquor, condoms, or pornography. If you want to go there...you know the choices.

And do remember, "In strict conformance with United States Naval policy, I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of any nuclear weapons on board this vessel."
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