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Old 01-03-2013, 05:57   #46
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Re: Extended tour in the EU, Med, Schengen for Yanks?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Given the age of the feud between Greece and Turkey? I wouldn't bet on Cyprus resolving or joining anything in the next fifty years.
Cyprus is already a EU member, and per its accession treaty must join Schengen as soon as practical, which is expected to be around 2016.
Croatia will probably be in Schengen in 2015.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:02   #47
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Re: Extended tour in the EU, Med, Schengen for Yanks?

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Oops. Too late. Already sent a message to the information line asking about taxes. However, as an act of penance I will share any reply that I receive, for just a small fee.
Once again a very quick response from the Italians. Here is there reply to my question about potential tax liabilities for a foreigner living in Italy.


Ministero degli Affari Esteri
Servizio per la Stampa e la Comunicazione Istituzionale
Ufficio Relazioni con il Pubblico


thank you for contacting the Office for the Relations with the Public of the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
I regret to inform you that this Ministry does not have any competence on issues related to tax regime.
For further information about the Italian tax system, a tax guide for foreigners is available on the website of the Italian Revenue Agency at: http://www1.agenziaentrate.gov.it/in.../tax_guide.htm
Best regards,
Silvia De Nardo
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:48   #48
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Re: Extended tour in the EU, Med, Schengen for Yanks?

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For further information about the Italian tax system, a tax guide for foreigners is available on the website of the Italian Revenue Agency at: http://www1.agenziaentrate.gov.it/in.../tax_guide.htm
Best regards,
Silvia De Nardo
Well I can't get this link to work. I can access the web site but searching does not seem to turn up this document. So next step, an email to the tax office for help.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:59   #49
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Re: Extended tour in the EU, Med, Schengen for Yanks?

Believe me, you really don't wan't to be even close to be considered as a tax payer in Europe (except Monaco). Neither you wan't to pay VAT of the full value of your boat. So make yourself a favor and stay well below the time limits..
BR Teddy
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:25   #50
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Re: Extended tour in the EU, Med, Schengen for Yanks?

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Believe me, you really don't wan't to be even close to be considered as a tax payer in Europe (except Monaco). Neither you wan't to pay VAT of the full value of your boat. So make yourself a favor and stay well below the time limits..
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After a little further research that sounds like a really, really good idea.

Here are the published income tax rates based on income.

Bracket Annual income Rate
1 up to 15,000 23%
2 15,001 - 28,000 27%
3 28,001 - 55,000 38%
4 55,001 - 75,000 41%
5 over 75,001 43%

This doesn't include local taxes, municipality surcharges, VAT and other taxes.

However, from what I'm finding it appears that you are not considered a resident for tax purposes unless you live in Italy for 183 days in a calendar year. So get an Italian visa and stay there for 5 months and bail?
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:46   #51
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Re: Extended tour in the EU, Med, Schengen for Yanks?

skip-
"However, as an act of penance" Ah, you see, now you are qualified for the religious visa, you are performing penance, a religious act. And doubtlessly on a pilgrimage.<G>

Is that "income" as in "gross income" "earned income" or a complicated adjusted gross income, such as we're used to in the US? If it only applies to earned income or income earned in Italy...that would make life much simpler for folks coming in under the requirement to have their own outside sources of income/support.

From http://www.worldwide-tax.com/italy/italy_tax.asp which was simply the first hit on Google:
"An individual is liable for tax on his income as an employee and on income as a self-employed person. Tax will be payable on income earned in Italy and overseas by an individual who meets the test of a "permanent resident" of Italy. ... being registered in the Population Registry as living more than 183 days a year in Italy."

So it appears at a fast glance to affect earned income, employment income, not passive income. Capital gains, etc. being a whole other ball of fur.


Dave,
oh, now I see. And am again confused as to the details. This stuff goes in one ear and out the other, I'm going to have to take notes. Or flag the boat in the Grand Duchy of Fenwick, which should put appropriate fear and respect in the hearts of all who see it. (If you're going to pick a fantasy passport, at least pick one with teeth in it, right?)
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:26   #52
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Re: Extended tour in the EU, Med, Schengen for Yanks?

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skip-
"However, as an act of penance" Ah, you see, now you are qualified for the religious visa, you are performing penance, a religious act. And doubtlessly on a pilgrimage.<G>

Wonder if I can find a foul weather jacket made of sackcloth then cover it with ashes?

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Is that "income" as in "gross income" "earned income" or a complicated adjusted gross income, such as we're used to in the US? If it only applies to earned income or income earned in Italy...that would make life much simpler for folks coming in under the requirement to have their own outside sources of income/support.
One web site I found just referred to "taxable" income, whatever that may mean.

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
From Italy Income Taxes and Tax Laws 2012, Italy Capital Gains, Deduction of Tax at Source which was simply the first hit on Google:
"An individual is liable for tax on his income as an employee and on income as a self-employed person. Tax will be payable on income earned in Italy and overseas by an individual who meets the test of a "permanent resident" of Italy. ... being registered in the Population Registry as living more than 183 days a year in Italy."

So it appears at a fast glance to affect earned income, employment income, not passive income. Capital gains, etc. being a whole other ball of fur.
Bottom line, after 160-170 days in Italy I will be looking for a weather window to sail off into the European sunset.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:42   #53
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Re: Extended tour in the EU, Med, Schengen for Yanks?

"a foul weather jacket made of sackcloth then ..."

ROFLMAO envisioning a line of Benedictine robes in neon yellow. I suppose the matching Little Sisters would look better in international orange, but I'm not sure how they'd ever keep their wimples on at sea. Saffron robes might work though.

Maybe this is why monastic orders aren't to be found on boats? <G>

As L. Ron Hubbard was supposed to have said at a writer's conference back when that was his only job, if you want to make real money, start a religion.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:05   #54
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Re: Extended tour in the EU, Med, Schengen for Yanks?

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As L. Ron Hubbard was supposed to have said at a writer's conference back when that was his only job, if you want to make real money, start a religion.
And that's a fact, if you are in it for the money, but then there's this guy that started the Pastafarians. Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
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Old 01-03-2013, 15:11   #55
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It's a shame that National Tourist / Visitor Visas are no longer issued - even if shorter than the 90 day Schengen......even "only" 30 days in Spain, 30 in France, 30 in Italy etc would quickly fill up a season even without going non-EU - before starting over again.......more paperwork (and likely cost!) but more flexibility.
David you have heard of the EU, haven't you !!!

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Old 01-03-2013, 15:17   #56
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The way I interpret DoJ's question, it is relevant. He is asking if he (or a Yank) can get a 30 or 60 or 90 day visa from France (even though it is part of Schengen). Then when done in France, move on and get a 30 day visa from Italy, then a 60 day one from Spain. All are Schengen, but if you were avoiding dealing with Schengen could you string it together in this manner using country-specific short-term visas?

My understanding is no, that there are no longer any country-specific short term visas in Schengenland, but I would love to hear otherwise.
Correct the Schengen Agreement removed national short term tourist visas except where specific bilateral agreements exist such as NZ

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Old 01-03-2013, 15:21   #57
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Re: Extended tour in the EU, Med, Schengen for Yanks?

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David you have heard of the EU, haven't you !!!

Dave
Yeah, EU been on the news a lot lately - mostly to do with the rise of the UK Tea Party .
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Old 01-03-2013, 21:10   #58
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Re: Extended tour in the EU, Med, Schengen for Yanks?

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5.Elective Residence ( the applicant must provide documented and detailed warranties of wide and constant economic resources resulting from incomes of which the person concerned can give evidence of having permanent and perpetual access, such as retirement benefit or live annuity, real estate, business and trade activities or other sources and the availability of an appropriate accommodation in Italy).
Nice job Hellosailor. I see this as being the best option and the only real obsticle being appropriate accommodation in italy. Why you own boat wouldn't meet that requirement, I don't know. But at worst, you should be able to find a resident agent who would rent you an address.
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Old 01-03-2013, 22:10   #59
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Re: Extended tour in the EU, Med, Schengen for Yanks?

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Wonder if I can find a foul weather jacket made of sackcloth then cover it with ashes?



One web site I found just referred to "taxable" income, whatever that may mean.



Bottom line, after 160-170 days in Italy I will be looking for a weather window to sail off into the European sunset.
I have an old piece of toast with the virgin Mary on one side. That might do it.
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Old 23-03-2013, 03:49   #60
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Re: Extended tour in the EU, Med, Schengen for Yanks?

I have contact the Italian Embassy to ask about long term visas and they replied that they can only be given in case of work or study.

Then if you ask for residency, and you are retired (not earning money working) what happens with the VAT of the boat. If you have a non VAT paid boat then will you be subject to pay the VAT?
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