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Old 20-03-2012, 23:41   #1
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Entitlement as a Cruiser

The word “entitlement” is being used a lot these days to review issues of big government and expensive nanny state safety nets for their citizens.

This Thread is not about that and I hope we all refrain from degenerating into abusive politics.

My question is more for us as Cruisers to describe and discuss what levels of government controls we experience in our home waters as compared to 3rd world countries and most importantly, what do we prefer?
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Old 21-03-2012, 00:54   #2
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

Could you be a bit more specific regarding the talking points?

For example, off the top of my head:
  • The increasingly definitive wording of EPA regulations pertaining to antifouling by-products and grey water discharge that affect a cruiser's well being.
  • State and Local authority's interpretation of those guidelines and their often gross mishandling of enforcing those very statutes in an interpretation outside its original intent.
  • Recent legal outcomes regarding the definition of a liveaboard's legal rights in contrast to a homeowner some 50 yards away.
  • HLS's treatment of boatowners and the boundary of law regarding warrant-less boardings within US waters.
  • The repercussion of today's market on the US Marina industry and the drastic change of landscape regarding the willingness to accommodate cruisers, live'aboards and transients.

Really interesting topic, but its too broad in my opinion to examine with your current wording. You also mention 3rd world countries as a point of comparison. Are you speaking in terms of how cruisers are treated, welcomed and recognized as a contributing source of income to those communities? Please elaborate a bit.
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Old 21-03-2012, 07:21   #3
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What's a third world country?

What is it we are supposed to be discussing? A comparison of rules regulations and red tape by country?

I see some train wrecks coming...
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Old 21-03-2012, 07:39   #4
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

Good point, Ex-Calif. In come respects the U.S. can appear to be third world, especially if you glimpse any reality shows.
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Old 21-03-2012, 07:44   #5
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
My question is more for us as Cruisers to describe and discuss what levels of government controls we experience in our home waters
Over here boatwise we can basically do WTF we like, whenever we want to.....and most other folks will leave you alone.

In addition we also have the rule of law - so means we don't need to kill each other over minor matters.....even though we are allowed guns that also need tripods! - being amongst civilised people is the key. Plussess and minuses to that way of living, but overall nowadays I prefer the quiet life.....no matter the occassional frustration that involves.

Appreciate that other cultures prefer a different approach.


Quote:
as compared to 3rd world countries
Never been to the USA by boat. People seem nice enough (as in most places) but Govt a bit too Woo based for my comfort / tastes. Besides am just wayyyy too lazy to jump through the Visa hoops.


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I hope we all refrain from degenerating into abusive politics.
Good luck with that...........
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Old 21-03-2012, 08:03   #6
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

I don't think we have many entitlements here in the US. Due to our tiny numbers, the homeowners (local voters) can eventually shove us away by restrictive plots. Witness the Lake Worth initiative to make the anchorage too shallow, and the new proposed buffer zones around mooring fields.

Ya gotta feel for the waterview owner (at least a smidgen) with folks anchoring 50 yards off his dock. Laundry on deck, fish fillets drying in the rigging, grey water hurting the quality of water for that giant snook living under his dock, music, lights, buzzing around on high powered RIBs ...and black water after dark.

I'm kinda glad all the birds flock together. More room for those of us who prefer solitude, not the madding cities.
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Old 21-03-2012, 08:12   #7
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

One entitlement too many people rely on....the USCG to rescue them when they make bad decisions. How's that for stirring the pot?
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Old 21-03-2012, 16:38   #8
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

Sorry for being vague but I didn’t want to pigeonhole this discussion without some initial feedback.

Patient identified very well the First World governance of the modern cruisers experience, expectations and disappointments

As compared to my 3rd World experience in the Philippines where there is little or no governance, SAR support, Nav-Aid maintenance, no expectations or feeling of being entitled to what is taken for granted in developed countries.

Yet somehow, I prefer no enforcement of rules, vague cruising regulations, poor communication and lack of sophisticated facilities as it ironically promotes a feeling of being more in control of my own destiny, when I make my cruising decisions, without safety nets.
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Old 21-03-2012, 16:59   #9
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

At least 60% of the sea bound worlds dirt patchs, have some restrictive rules and regulations !!Some more then others! The USA, since 9-11 have brought in to effect a bunch of new rules and regs, and a new department or 2!! I know everyone hates the fact that this act of war was done to the peaple of the US, BUT it has put a small damper on some of the things that we as cruisers love to do ! BUT, and to me this is a big word, we still can leave in our boat and go where we want to(except for cuba LOL) when we want to !and even tho the coasties carry automatic weapons, and tend to point them around in a somewhat un-safe manner! They are still polite, even when met by profanity, and stupitity!! ! I still feel Im as able to sail when and where I wont to! Ive been treated a lot worse in a couple of eurapean(spl) countrys ! so I feel we are still pretty free in comparison to some other places just my 2 cents
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Old 21-03-2012, 17:14   #10
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

since cruisers make up about 0.000002 % of the worlds population i would think our entitlement is about half that,but so far i've managed to more than double it many times over.................sorry what was the question
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Old 21-03-2012, 17:25   #11
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

I prefer less governance.
Seems more an more difficult to anchor in FL - But East end of Long Island, NY is still great.
The training facility for these guys is adjacent to me - they have a target boat with many holes in the outboard - this is a good sign. (If they had manikins with holes it would not)
I try not to fly these days, but my experiences with the new TSA agents has only be good - sometimes stories about this get out of control.
I picked family up from the airport last week. Observed several spring break girls heading for customs - they all had very large stick-on Groucho Marx mustaches. having a good old joke. I watched to see what the TSA guy would do. He laughed and waved them thru...
What I like the leasst - although it has not happened to me is un-warranted boardings - "for safety"
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Old 21-03-2012, 17:31   #12
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

I tend to judge a society by how well it maintains its aids to navigation.
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Old 21-03-2012, 17:36   #13
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

Quote:
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I tend to judge a society by how well it maintains its aids to navigation.
i tend to judge places by the cost of a beer and a cheap meal!
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Old 21-03-2012, 17:48   #14
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

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i tend to judge places by the cost of a beer and a cheap meal!
And can you do your own work in the boatyard?

Not do I want to spend $22 to tie up my dinghy for the day.
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Old 21-03-2012, 17:49   #15
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

3rd world countries often have more paperwork - which I hate.
Brazil was the worst - visit 4 or 5 different gov departments - in the correct order. And again when you leave to visit the next port 2 days later - not a fun aspect of cruising.
Bahamas top of list of easy in/out (with all the click-clacks too).
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