Entitlement as a Cruiser

[avb3]

Originally Posted by anjou

All the nice friendly topics have been discussed to death, but the old faves keep coming back for another outing.

Anyone for a chat about guns, heads or hulls?

What's the matter, you got something against anchors?

[Cheechako]

I thought the original question was pretty clear. My answer is third world countries seem far easier to deal with than home. Not that I've been harrassed at home, (much anyway) but it's like I'm living in fear of accidentally going against a regulation etc...or looking over my shoulder here.... IMHO, the third world is truly "free". We MIGHT have better protections from government harrassment here in some ways , but in other ways we legislate it! I guess that answers the other part of the question...

[sailorboy1]

The only thing I feel I'm entitled to is to follow the rules/laws of wherever I am.

[AllezCat]

Malaysia sounds surprisingly good.
I don't believe Indonesia is - too many regulations (IMO). At one stage you had to notify them with names of crew in advance.
But, no worse than Australia...
I would say that moving between neighbors: Australia-Indonesia, and USA-Bahamas are diametrically opposite in hassles (at least for nationals).

Does Malaysia have striper clubs with takeaway service?

[Kettlewell]

There is no ideal place in the world--that's why cruising is great--if you don't like some place you move on and try the next one. Everywhere has its pluses and minuses in terms of freedoms, culture, attitudes, etc. For those who want to knock the USA, take a look at the millions of people who want to be here so badly they come in illegally. Personally, I like a lot of things about it: open media and freedom of speech, a wide variety of people, lots of different terrains, climates, cities, cultures, languages, tons of cruising grounds where you can anchor for as long as you like and nobody cares, and relative "freedom" compared to many parts of the world. The general lack of crime is wonderful compared to many cruising places. In New England nobody hauls their dinghy onboard at night, or locks it at the dinghy dock. Heck, in Maine half the people leave their boats unlocked all the time. Here in upstate NY I can walk anywhere I want to, at any hour of the day or night, without the slightest worry about crime. Down in the Carolinas I've had the marina folks just throw me the keys to their personal car when I needed something from the store far away. In Canada I was handed the keys to the yacht club and told to "lock up after myself" when I arrived late, and that was after they said stay as long as I wanted at the dock for no charge. In Colombia when there was a blood shortage at a local hospital word went out on the radio and a couple of dozen US cruisers showed up and donated blood. When someone in the fleet broke her leg a bunch of us pitched in and came up with a chunk of cash she needed to get into the hospital. If you need something done, or you just need something, Americans are very generous and giving and they will figure out how to get it done. After being down in the southwest Caribbean for a few years I really enjoyed walking down a US street and not feeling like I had to be careful not to fall afoul of some petty official or have to pay some minor bribe to get something done, or wondering if I should be carrying my money in my sock. That's just a way of life in much of the world.

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Hi Bash... I tend to judge a society by their suicide rate..... rather than how well they maintain nav-aids that they teach mariners never to rely on.

I must have missed that class.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

Malaysia sounds surprisingly good.
I don't believe Indonesia is - too many regulations (IMO). At one stage you had to notify them with names of crew in advance.
But, no worse than Australia...
I would say that moving between neighbors: Australia-Indonesia, and USA-Bahamas are diametrically opposite in hassles (at least for nationals).

Does Malaysia have striper clubs with takeaway service?

I tend to judge a lot of cruising grounds by the value and quality of the take away service...

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

There is no ideal place in the world--that's why cruising is great--if you don't like some place you move on and try the next one. Everywhere has its pluses and minuses in terms of freedoms, culture, attitudes, etc. For those who want to knock the USA, take a look at the millions of people who want to be here so badly they come in illegally. Personally, I like a lot of things about it: open media and freedom of speech, a wide variety of people, lots of different terrains, climates, cities, cultures, languages, tons of cruising grounds where you can anchor for as long as you like and nobody cares, and relative "freedom" compared to many parts of the world. The general lack of crime is wonderful compared to many cruising places. In New England nobody hauls their dinghy onboard at night, or locks it at the dinghy dock. Heck, in Maine half the people leave their boats unlocked all the time. Here in upstate NY I can walk anywhere I want to, at any hour of the day or night, without the slightest worry about crime. Down in the Carolinas I've had the marina folks just throw me the keys to their personal car when I needed something from the store far away. In Canada I was handed the keys to the yacht club and told to "lock up after myself" when I arrived late, and that was after they said stay as long as I wanted at the dock for no charge. In Colombia when there was a blood shortage at a local hospital word went out on the radio and a couple of dozen US cruisers showed up and donated blood. When someone in the fleet broke her leg a bunch of us pitched in and came up with a chunk of cash she needed to get into the hospital. If you need something done, or you just need something, Americans are very generous and giving and they will figure out how to get it done. After being down in the southwest Caribbean for a few years I really enjoyed walking down a US street and not feeling like I had to be careful not to fall afoul of some petty official or have to pay some minor bribe to get something done, or wondering if I should be carrying my money in my sock. That's just a way of life in much of the world.

Singapore has its authoritarian reputation.

I was completely comfortable dropping my 8 year old in a taxi to a friends house day or night. He used to walk with his buddies to Changi village for lunch. At times they would jump on the trains and head downtown for a movie.

Glad your part of the USA is relatively crime free but I couldn't in good conscience let my 8 year old outta my sight in most places.

Follow the (relatively) reasonable rules in Singapore and you are fine.

Almost every place I have been in the world is about knowing where and when you can go "unmolested."

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

I must have missed that class.

Perhaps you were away that day….

One should not rely on a single source for PNT information
THE PRUDENT MARINER

a. Warning On Use Of Floating Aids To Navigation and on Aids to Navigation in General, to Fix a Navigational Position.

The aids to navigation depicted on charts comprise a system consisting of fixed and floating aids with varying degrees of reliability. Therefore, prudent mariners will not rely solely on any single aid to navigation, particularly a floating aid.
An aid to navigation also refers to any device or structure external to a craft, designed to assist in determination of position.
This includes celestial, terrestrial, and electronic means, such as Global Positioning System (GPS) and Differential GPS(DGPS).

Here, too, the prudent mariner will not rely soley on any single aid to navigation.
The buoy symbol is used to indicate the approximate position of the buoy body and the sinker which secures the buoy to
the seabed. The approximate position is used because of practical limitations in positioning and maintaining buoys and
their sinkers in precise geographical locations. These limitations include, but are not limited to, inherent imprecisions in
position fixing methods, prevailing atmospheric and sea conditions, the slope of and the material making up the seabed, the
fact that buoys are moored to sinkers by varying lengths of chain, and the fact that buoy and/or sinker positions are not
under continuous surveillance but are normally checked only during periodic maintenance visits which often occur more than a year apart. The position of the buoy body can be expected to shift inside and outside the charting symbol due to the
forces of nature. The mariner is also cautioned that buoys are liable to be carried away, shifted, capsized, sunk, etc. Lighted
buoys may be extinguished or sound signals may not function as the result of ice or other natural causes, collisions, or other
accidents. Many of these factors also apply to articulated lights.
For the foregoing reasons, a prudent mariner must not rely completely upon the position or operation of floating aids to navigation, but will also utilize bearings from fixed objects and aids to navigation on shore. Further, a vessel attempting to pass close aboard always risks collision with a yawing buoy or with the obstruction the buoy marks.

http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/St...A/Pub117bk.pdf

http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/St...A/Pub117bk.pdf

Coordinates : A resource on positioning, navigation and beyond » Blog Archive » One should not rely on a single source for PNT information

Guidance & Regulations

TVA: Report Navigation Aid Problem

[Pelagic]

Hi Kettlewell
I hope this thread does not degenerate into bashing any country, since this was never my intent.



I am a big fan of the US and like you said, we can always move.
“Vive la difference!”

What interests me is: ‘whether the leading counties in yachting (NA and Europe) are going in the right direction of pleasure craft management?’

Having cruised in those waters since the 80’s….is this evolution to tight management a good thing and does it make us happier sailors?

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

.
......I don't believe Indonesia is - too many regulations (IMO). At one stage you had to notify them with names of crew in advance.

Conditions are slowly changing in Indonesia as this latest intelligence report suggests.

One of the encouraging things I see happening in Western Pacific countries is that they are getting competitive in making their destination “Yacht Friendly”

Same is happening in the Philippines and Malaysia, where pleasure craft are no longer treated like commercial craft and charges are in line with encouraging any tourist.

Perhaps when these destinations become more popular, the developed countries will start listening to what a cruising tourist really wants and is entitled to

“The Indonesian archipelago stretches over 2500 kilometers west to east and is not only the hand that cups south-east Asia and its waters, but also one of the most fascinating cruising destinations on the planet. Unfortunately, it is equally difficult to enter and near impossible to charter there.
A recent initiative by the Indonesian government
In consultation with indo yacht support and supported by Asia-Pacific super yachts is set to change that radically. While not eliminating bribery, it should reduce it to tens of dollars and the requirement to post a bond or insure against a bond of a considerable percentage of the yacht’s value has disappeared entirely. This telegraphs the intentions within the Indonesian
Government to encourage super yacht maritime tourism, and can only have a positive effect on the number of yachts cruising these waters. “

[LostAtSea2011]

Originally Posted by bewitched

I really like the place - its got a lot going for it - geographically its in the right place, it safe for the boat and the individual, the people, like the weather are warm and friendly, marina and other boat facilities/services abound. Food is great with Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian, Malay and Thai influences, provisioning is a joy.

I always feel most welcome in Malaysia

What about the women ??

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by LostAtSea2011

What about the women ??

No good at all. Please continue on to the carribean...

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

No good at all. Please continue on to the carribean...

Absolutely!!! no reason to even consider Malaysia!

Beautiful Women from Malaysia list

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

What interests me is: ‘whether the leading counties in yachting (NA and Europe) are going in the right direction of pleasure craft management?’ ….is this evolution to tight management a good thing and does it make us happier sailors?

I think that entirely depends on the individual.

There will be those for example, who keep their boat in a marina, with a security guard, have it fully insured, use it at weekends and occasional short cruises. Are glad to know that everyone out there has a government endorsed licence of competance and that the cruising ground is well charted, that if there is any trouble a Coast Guard is just a radio call away or an injured crew can be heli-vac'd off within the hour. This infrastructure will appeal to a great many cruisers I think.

Others will think the infrastructure has completely sterilised the whole cruising experience, that regulation has simply added cost and removed freedom and liberty.

Neither view is right or wrong. We, as individuals just perceive the world and our place in it from different viewpoints