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Old 21-03-2012, 18:26   #16
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
As compared to my 3rd World experience in the Philippines where there is little or no governance, SAR support, Nav-Aid maintenance, no expectations or feeling of being entitled to what is taken for granted in developed countries.

Yet somehow, I prefer no enforcement of rules, vague cruising regulations, poor communication and lack of sophisticated facilities as it ironically promotes a feeling of being more in control of my own destiny, when I make my cruising decisions, without safety nets.
With you all the way on those observations. One of the main reasons I keep going back to the Philippines...the freedom!!

As sweeping generalisations I'd say that;

Most 3rd world countries are cruiser indifferent - they really couldn't care where you are or what you do, but at some point in the future they will realise that with regulation comes revenue.

Most 1st world countries are cruiser regulating - some to greater degrees than others and the trend is for ever more regulation.

The odd country is still very restrictive (and usually on the freedoms of its own people as well) and as a result is cruiser (and generally foreigner) phobic.

The last and shining light are countries that actively encourage us cruisers. In my part of the world it's Malaysia; Free and easy CIQ, numerous cheap (sometimes free!!) marinas, cheap and easy boat registration if you decide to stay.

I tend to stay away from those with too many restrictions and/or regulations. I enjoy those without much more
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Old 21-03-2012, 18:35   #17
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

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The last and shining light are countries that actively encourage us cruisers. In my part of the world it's Malaysia; Free and easy CIQ, numerous cheap (sometimes free!!) marinas, cheap and easy boat registration if you decide to stay.
Sounds like my kind of place--tell us more!
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Old 21-03-2012, 18:50   #18
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

Atoll you need to vist Louisiana the beer is cheap cold and plentyfull!! and the food is super and cheap !! heck I would even make ya a Shrimp boil !!
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Old 21-03-2012, 19:04   #19
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

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Atoll you need to vist Louisiana the beer is cheap cold and plentyfull!! and the food is super and cheap !! heck I would even make ya a Shrimp boil !!
i'm booking my flight!,beer just went up by 15cents a pint here in the uk,according to the gubberments new, tax the poor,give to the rich budget!

millionaires are now $15000 better off tax wise here
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Old 21-03-2012, 19:05   #20
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

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i tend to judge places by the cost of a beer and a cheap meal!
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Originally Posted by tgzzzz View Post
And can you do your own work in the boatyard?
.
Why would you want to when the cost of a day of someone else's labour is equivalent to the cost of a beer and a cheap meal back home.
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Old 21-03-2012, 19:07   #21
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

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Atoll you need to vist Louisiana the beer is cheap cold and plentyfull!! and the food is super and cheap !!
Sounds like a great place if it wasnt for all the Americans
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Old 21-03-2012, 19:11   #22
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

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Sounds like a great place if it wasnt for all the Americans
they all speak french in louisiana!
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Old 21-03-2012, 19:19   #23
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

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Sounds like my kind of place--tell us more!
I really like the place - its got a lot going for it - geographically its in the right place, it safe for the boat and the individual, the people, like the weather are warm and friendly, marina and other boat facilities/services abound. Food is great with Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian, Malay and Thai influences, provisioning is a joy.

I always feel most welcome in Malaysia
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Old 21-03-2012, 19:25   #24
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

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Originally Posted by bewitched View Post
I really like the place - its got a lot going for it - geographically its in the right place, it safe for the boat and the individual, the people, like the weather are warm and friendly, marina and other boat facilities/services abound. Food is great with Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian, Malay and Thai influences, provisioning is a joy.

I always feel most welcome in Malaysia
lucky you are not a gay politician there then!
i think anwar might disagree lol!
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Old 21-03-2012, 20:55   #25
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

The americans down the bayou are Coon Ass's and proud of it !! many still speak some french at least Cajun french anyway ! and are freindly and Know Boats and Boat work ! and we have some bottom paint That fastbott Hates LOL Just kiddin LOL
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Old 22-03-2012, 01:50   #26
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

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I tend to judge a society by how well it maintains its aids to navigation.
Hi Bash... I tend to judge a society by their suicide rate..... rather than how well they maintain nav-aids that they teach mariners never to rely on.
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Old 22-03-2012, 02:27   #27
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

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Originally Posted by bewitched View Post

...The last and shining light are countries that actively encourage us cruisers.

In my part of the world it's Malaysia; Free and easy CIQ, numerous cheap (sometimes free!!) marinas, cheap and easy boat registration if you decide to stay.

I tend to stay away from those with too many restrictions and/or regulations. I enjoy those without much more
Well said Bewitched!

I think that just about nails down my holy grail of the ideal cruising destination.

Kudat and East side of Borneo is one of my favorite destinations and an easy sail down from the Philippines.

To look at it this from an economics perspective:

I believe for those cruisers who are used to paying high prices for marine infrastructure (and beer) there is a justifiable expectation for ‘service and entitlement’.

The economics of the super yacht industry is staggering and in developed countries with the self-serving support of an organized and successful marine industry, they lobby to impose more and more regulations as a form of revenue generation.

Unfortunately, this trickles down to the family cruiser.

Ironically you pay more and cruise with less freedoms.

Whereas in places like the Philippines and Malaysia, they are just as happy to sell you that beer at a slight increase over local rates, but still at a value most countries can’t match.

They simply hope that some talented cruisers will stay legally, import their knowledge, money and standards, as a form of investment into their beautiful country and people

In return, you navigate without expectations and arrive without excessive conditions other than an ability to pay your own way.

Isn’t that how friends should get to know each other?

These 2010 numbers illustrate why developed countries feel they are entitled to an ever bigger piece of the economic yachting pie

Super yachts contributed e24bn to the economy in 2010.

Direct contribution – e13.76bn.
Indirect contribution– e10.24bn.
• Over 6,000 companies operate in the super yacht industry.
• Jobs created by super yachts are worth e5.99bn annually.
E4.37bn spent on land-based jobs annually.
E1.62bn spent on super yacht crew jobs annually.
• Between 150,000 and 130,000 land-based jobs.
• Up to 100,000 contractor/day worker jobs.
• 33,000 crew employed on yachts.
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Old 22-03-2012, 03:50   #28
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

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What's a third world country?

What is it we are supposed to be discussing? A comparison of rules regulations and red tape by country?

I see some train wrecks coming...
All the nice friendly topics have been discussed to death, but the old faves keep coming back for another outing.

Anyone for a chat about guns, heads or hulls?
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Old 22-03-2012, 03:55   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic

Well said Bewitched!

I think that just about nails down my holy grail of the ideal cruising destination.

Kudat and East side of Borneo is one of my favorite destinations and an easy sail down from the Philippines.

To look at it this from an economics perspective:

I believe for those cruisers who are used to paying high prices for marine infrastructure (and beer) there is a justifiable expectation for ‘service and entitlement’.

The economics of the super yacht industry is staggering and in developed countries with the self-serving support of an organized and successful marine industry, they lobby to impose more and more regulations as a form of revenue generation.

Unfortunately, this trickles down to the family cruiser.

Ironically you pay more and cruise with less freedoms.

Whereas in places like the Philippines and Malaysia, they are just as happy to sell you that beer at a slight increase over local rates, but still at a value most countries can’t match.

They simply hope that some talented cruisers will stay legally, import their knowledge, money and standards, as a form of investment into their beautiful country and people

In return, you navigate without expectations and arrive without excessive conditions other than an ability to pay your own way.

Isn’t that how friends should get to know each other?

These 2010 numbers illustrate why developed countries feel they are entitled to an ever bigger piece of the economic yachting pie

Super yachts contributed e24bn to the economy in 2010.
Direct contribution – e13.76bn.
Indirect contribution– e10.24bn.
• Over 6,000 companies operate in the super yacht industry.
• Jobs created by super yachts are worth e5.99bn annually.
E4.37bn spent on land-based jobs annually.
E1.62bn spent on super yacht crew jobs annually.
• Between 150,000 and 130,000 land-based jobs.
• Up to 100,000 contractor/day worker jobs.
• 33,000 crew employed on yachts.
I have to agree with Malaysia as destination - plenty of marinas and yards, duty free import zones, great scenery. Most Asian countries have their warts but Malaysia, Thailand and the Philippines are easy to cruise in. Singapore also pretty easy but expensive and not really much to see. Indonesia is good once you learn how the local scene operates.

These countries preedominantly value the jobs that are created as opposed to protecting yacht building or trrying to conol behaviors by taxation rules.

Indonesia is an exception as they are concerned about hard currency flight. Their strategies to attempt to bond cruisers at the value of the boats is designed to make sure hard currency doesn't leave the country or if it does the gov't gets to collect taxes on sales.
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Old 22-03-2012, 03:59   #30
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Re: Entitlement as a Cruiser

Once upon a time, I had a two seat home built plane.
Those who knew nothing about home builts, thought I was rich. Some of those people had horses, and I knew they had more money than sense cos to keep a horse, when you dont have a farm, is expensive.

People who dont boat, think those with boats are also rich.

Everything is relative and this is evident in boating. Everyone has a budget to work with and you make your choices accordingly.
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