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Old 08-09-2019, 18:28   #1
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Drifting fishermen

When you are underway sailing, and you encounter a powerboat that is just drifting because it’s owner is fishing, who is the stand on vessel and who is the give way vessel? Also, what if this person is drifting in the middle of a very tight channel?
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Old 08-09-2019, 18:31   #2
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Re: Drifting fishermen

If they are drifting aren't you the overtaking vessel?
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Old 08-09-2019, 18:32   #3
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Re: Drifting fishermen

Good question. I don’t know. Let’s assume their bow is facing me, their motor is running, but in neutral, and they’re on the bow fishing.
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Old 08-09-2019, 18:36   #4
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Re: Drifting fishermen

I'd treat it like a vessel not under command. You're faster and more maneuverable. Avoid a collision.
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Old 08-09-2019, 18:40   #5
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Re: Drifting fishermen

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
I'd treat it like a vessel not under command. You're faster and more maneuverable. Avoid a collision.
This is how I’ve always treated that situation, and I’ve never had a close call. Just curious if there was an official rule. Skimmed the COLREGS again tonight and couldn’t find anything. Does get annoying though when they are impeding passage through a tight channel.
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Old 08-09-2019, 18:40   #6
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Re: Drifting fishermen

I believe if they are not docked or anchored, they are considered to be underway even if drifting. Their lack of headway ought to make any crossing irrelevant unless you ram them, which even as the stand on vessel is not permitted. It is doubtful they understand they are the burdened vessel.
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Old 08-09-2019, 18:58   #7
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Re: Drifting fishermen

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It is doubtful they understand they are the burdened vessel.
I’m not sure if they’re actually burdened (trying to figure that out), but I agree with this sentiment 100% as it’s always my impression that they’re far more focused on fishing than paying attention to the boats around them.
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Old 08-09-2019, 19:22   #8
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Re: Drifting fishermen

Unless you are approaching them from their stern, you as a sailing vessel are "stand on" and they as a powerboat are obliged to "give way" regardless of whether they are "making way" or not.



I won't bother to give the specific COLREGS references again. If you have to ask the question, you need to read and absorb Rules 1 to 18.
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Old 08-09-2019, 19:27   #9
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Re: Drifting fishermen

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Originally Posted by Peregrine1983 View Post
I’m not sure if they’re actually burdened (trying to figure that out), but I agree with this sentiment 100% as it’s always my impression that they’re far more focused on fishing than paying attention to the boats around them.

The term "burdened" doesn't appear iin COLREGs and just confuses the issue. Please don't use it.



What does it actually mean? As I see it:
If I have to "stand on" I am burdened in that I have no freedom of action.
If I am free to maneuver so as to avoid collision, I am not burdened.



But then again, many use the term "burdened" to describe the "give way" vessel.
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Old 08-09-2019, 19:56   #10
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Re: Drifting fishermen

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Unless you are approaching them from their stern, you as a sailing vessel are "stand on" and they as a powerboat are obliged to "give way" regardless of whether they are "making way" or not.
"Yes your Honor, I did see him fishing from the bow of his boat. My boat ran into his boat because I had the right of way and it was his obligation to move his boat out of my way."

See how far that line of logic gets you in the real world. Good grief...
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Old 08-09-2019, 20:21   #11
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Re: Drifting fishermen

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"Yes your Honor, I did see him fishing from the bow of his boat. My boat ran into his boat because I had the right of way and it was his obligation to move his boat out of my way."

See how far that line of logic gets you in the real world. Good grief...

Aaaaaaargh!. How many times does it have to be reiterated. We see the same ill-informed dangerous thinking in just about every COLREGs discussion. There is no such concept as "right of way" under COLREGs. Anyone who uses that expression is sadly lacking in the fundamental knowledge required for good seamanship.


Please read and comprehend the specific rules concerning "stand on" and "give way'. Especially Rule 17.


(a) (i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way the other shall keep her course and speed.
(ii) The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her manoeuvre alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules.
(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.
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Old 08-09-2019, 20:44   #12
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Re: Drifting fishermen

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Aaaaaaargh!. How many times does it have to be reiterated. There is no such concept as "right of way" under COLREGs. Anyone applying your "logic" is totally in the wrong.

Please read and comprehend the specific rules concerning "stand on" and "give way'. Especially Rule 17.

(a) (i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way the other shall keep her course and speed.
(ii) The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her manoeuvre alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules.
(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.
See, that's a way better explanation because Rule #1 is 'Avoid collisions'. Rule #2 is 'See Rule #1'.

When you insinuate "a powerboat are obliged to "give way" regardless of whether they are "making way" or not" a false impression can be had by new sailors who come to forums such as this and look to Old Salts like you for advice. They don't have a clue and personally I've run into far too many of them.

One example, I was towing a Hydro Hoist from Seal Beach into Alamitos Bay and a novice sailboater decided he had the right of way because, well, he was in a sailboat and the Hydro Hoist was being towed by a powerboat. So he brainlessly tacked right in front of us almost wrecking both boats and our tow.

Thanks for that clarification and now back to our regularly scheduled program.
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Old 08-09-2019, 20:56   #13
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Re: Drifting fishermen

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Originally Posted by Shenandoah52 View Post
When you insinuate "a powerboat are obliged to "give way" regardless of whether they are "making way" or not" a false impression can be had by new sailors who come to forums such as this and look to Old Salts like you for advice. They don't have a clue and personally I've run into far too many of them.
I wasn't "insinuating" anything, I was specifically answering the OP's question: " who is the stand on vessel and who is the give way vessel? "
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Old 08-09-2019, 21:07   #14
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Re: Drifting fishermen

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I wasn't "insinuating" anything, I was specifically answering the OP's question: " who is the stand on vessel and who is the give way vessel? "
Fair enough. Strike my poor use of the word insinuating. Either way, thank you for reiterating that collision avoidance is Job #1.
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Old 08-09-2019, 21:15   #15
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Re: Drifting fishermen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenandoah52 View Post
"Yes your Honor, I did see him fishing from the bow of his boat. My boat ran into his boat because I had the right of way and it was his obligation to move his boat out of my way."

See how far that line of logic gets you in the real world. Good grief...
Assuming, and that is a big assumption, this is in court it needs to be noted that Admiralty Courts are not like courts for things that happen on dirt. There is not really a guilty/not guilty result. Blame is assigned on a percent basis.

If you are fishing on the bow of your boat and not maintaining a lookout you will get dinged for that. If no one is at the helm and not able to start the engine or maintain way if the engine is running you will get dinged for that. Not saying it is the case but if alcohol or drugs are involved that is a major ding. There also may be other details along the lines of PFDs or what ever.

If you fail to avoid running into another boat you will get a major ding for that. There also may be more details that would result in dings.

Not really easy to guess what the result would be since so little detail was provided in the OP; but in this case seems there would be plenty of blame to go around. I would start at 50/50 and go from there.
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