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Old 07-04-2011, 08:01   #1
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Don't Fudge With Your Insurance Policy

I've seen a number of posts in the past few months where the poster indicates that they didn't exactly reveal the complete truth to their hull insurance company. Things like: geographical limits, home port, equipment requirements etc. These are loopholes that the insurance company might use to deny coverage in the event of a loss.

When accepting insurance, you are bound by a legal concept known as uberrimae fidei, a Latin phrase meaning "utmost good faith".

Here are two links for further reading:

Uberrima fides - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
A higher duty is exacted from parties to an insurance contract than from parties to most other contracts in order to ensure the disclosure of all material facts so that the contract may accurately reflect the actual risk being undertaken.
Maritime Law Association of the United States

Quote:
An underwriter may presume to rely on his belief that a potential insured has disclosed all facts material to the risk insured. M'Lanahan, at 185. The Supreme Court has held that the insured's disclosure must be so complete as to put the insurer in the exact same position as the insured.
In the US, failure to disclose all the facts, especially known defects, could mean you are not as insured as you thought. I don't have any idea how this applies to those insured with foreign countries, other than to add this:
Quote:
Uberrimae fidei is the motto of Lloyd's of London.
If you are going to pay the premiums for insurance, you might as well fess up to the company before you get surprised at claim time.

I'm not saying that they will always look for a loophole, or that any discrepancy in your declaration can let them off the hook. I'm merely saying that honesty is the best policy when it comes to insurance.
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Old 07-04-2011, 08:11   #2
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Re: Don't fudge with your insurance policy

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Insurance is a scam. Avoid it my friends.
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Old 07-04-2011, 08:16   #3
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Re: Don't fudge with your insurance policy

Insurance companies have long lost there legitimacy. They are not providing a service they are just stealing your money. If it wasn't the law in some cases they would be out of business.
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Old 08-04-2011, 17:28   #4
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Re: Don't fudge with your insurance policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V_Surya View Post
Insurance companies have long lost there legitimacy. They are not providing a service they are just stealing your money. If it wasn't the law in some cases they would be out of business.
I am sure some insurance is a scam, but with others you get what you pay for, if you ever need it.

I know a couple who a few years ago lost their boat due to an engine fire. It burnt to the waterline and sunk within minutes and they were lucky to get off with their lives.

The insurance paid in full (less deductible) and they had a new boat within a few months (which I am now helping to pay for with my premiums). I am not sure, but I also believe the insurance company paid for the salvage of the wreck which was hampering navigation in a canal and needed to be removed.

I heard of another poor fellow whose boat burnt in the marina we were in and he didn't have insurance was was ultimately sued by the marina to remove the wreck. He lost his boat and then some.

Just be careful of who you give your money to. Too bad there isn't a Consumer Guide to insurance which can indicate what carriers stonewall or refuse payments without good reason...
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Old 08-04-2011, 18:52   #5
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Re: Don't Fudge With Your Insurance Policy

the best thing I did is rid myself of insurance payments. Use prudence caution, respect your lack of abilities and take the hard route to avoid contacting another vessel. Remember insurance started by thugs asking insurance money to stop them from scuttling your vessel, things have not changed.
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Old 08-04-2011, 19:10   #6
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Re: Don't Fudge With Your Insurance Policy

In theory, insurance is a great idea: Everyone chips in to cover losses for the few....BUT.... cheaters make bogus claims, burn their houses down, sue their neighbors, government gets in the picture and limits competition, insurance companies hire "adjusters" to figure out how to avoid paying whenever possible, then they decide they will insure only those who will almost certainly never need the insurance, then they build huge offices and pay their executives huge sums of money (your premiums), those doing repairs collude with them to screw you and fix your car with parts that don't fit....it goes on and on and turns the original idea into a circle jerk. That's democracy! Oh, and now government is going to REQUIRE us all to buy their insurance.
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Old 09-04-2011, 02:35   #7
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Re: Don't Fudge With Your Insurance Policy

I had a good experiance with Legal Expenses Insurance (LEI) a few years back against someone who didn't have / didn't want to claim on their own insurance. Got a nice cheque and wasn't a claim on my vehicle insurance either.

Bought as part of a motor insurance policy - but seperate company / policy....to be honest, I didn't know I'd bought it .....I forget the details now, but was cheap to buy (20?) and had a large amount of legal costs covered (albeit their own people / lawyers involved - at least at the outset, I never got into court ) - although not in the squillions, more than enough for another party (individual or insurance company) to decide that playing for time is going to be expensive as I don't care about the legal cost

Downside I guess is that some screening will be going on if the claim gets serious - but cheap enough on it's own for a few initial legal letters from folks waving a big (and paid for ) stick.


I mention it as LEI might be useful add on for those with 3rd party only insurance, and not neccessarily tied to the boat. Might be a bit of Googling though to find something with suitable worldwide cover.......
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Old 09-04-2011, 07:24   #8
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Re: Don't Fudge With Your Insurance Policy

"uberrimae fidei, a Latin phrase meaning "utmost good faith"."

We're talking insurance companies right? There's a Greek phrase for that....oh yeah, "oxymoron".
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Old 09-04-2011, 07:37   #9
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Re: Don't Fudge With Your Insurance Policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
. . . I mention it as LEI might be useful add on for those with 3rd party only insurance, and not neccessarily tied to the boat. Might be a bit of Googling though to find something with suitable worldwide cover.......
You would have to check with the LEI to see if their coverage extends to "Admiralty Courts" and legal proceeding which cover maritime situations. This is a separate legal system from landside legal systems.
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Old 17-04-2011, 07:49   #10
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Re: Don't Fudge With Your Insurance Policy

Good Morning all

We have been looking into a company called Pegasus insuance Has anyone had experience with this company.
Thanks
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Old 17-04-2011, 08:11   #11
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Re: Don't Fudge With Your Insurance Policy

Pantaenius (Germany) were very good following a claim 2 years ago for lightning damage.
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Old 17-04-2011, 08:26   #12
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pirate Re: Don't Fudge With Your Insurance Policy

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Pantaenius (Germany) were very good following a claim 2 years ago for lightning damage.
The only company I'll use... recommend them strongly... can find cheaper but none are of the same standard/quality of service
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Old 17-04-2011, 08:38   #13
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Re: Don't Fudge With Your Insurance Policy

Uberrima Fides: The reason insurance companies require a survey before they will insure your boat
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Old 17-04-2011, 09:14   #14
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Re: Don't Fudge With Your Insurance Policy

Insurance companies wantng to make a profit!
Good grief, what will they think of next!
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Old 17-04-2011, 09:17   #15
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Re: Don't Fudge With Your Insurance Policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmccharles View Post
Good Morning all - We have been looking into a company called Pegasus insuance Has anyone had experience with this company. - Thanks
If you look at Companies - Pegasus Group
you will see that Pegasus Group is the company that represents many other insurance companies that includes "Markel" and "Lemma". "Markel" is a major carrier used by I.M.I.S. -http://www.imiscorp.net/
and a huge amount of USA cruisers sailing around the world use them.
- - "Lemma" is a new outfit breaking into the upscale marine market.
And of course Lloyd's is listed so even though Lloyd's is a "market" for insurance, Pegasus Group is making use of them.
- - So it appears that Pegasus Group is a system of "Agents" world-wide using the same actual Insurers as everybody else.
- - Remember - for "outside the USA" you are buying insurance through a "Broker/Agent" who is shopping you and your boat to the established actual insurance companies and then supplying you with the information as to which one will write coverage for you. Which "Broker/Agent" you choose is a personal decision based on their responsiveness and other recommendations from experience world cruisers.
- - For cruising boats/recreational boat that do not leave USA/Bahamas then your personal auto/home insurance companies are usually a better bargain.
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