Dont declare firearms in the Bahamas, Ouch!

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

That is not "all" you said, and well you know it is not. Why be disingenuous?

Here's the entire post:

So, are they unarmed?

If so, thee crew of the Mia were very civilized in not ordering the crew of the P-44 off their boat at gunpoint.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

But how can the Bahamian authorities know this in advance? And surely simply nondeclaration in such circumstances and given the situation in the Bahamas and its origins warrants suspicion and should be taken very seriously (rather more seriously than it in fact was IMHO) by the authorities? I am absolutely certain that like circumstances in the US side of things would have generated a fierce response! No?

I think you misunderstand me.

I think the Bahamians were right in what they did to these people, and like you, I wouldn't have been upset if they had been punished a lot more severely. As to why they did it, or what their motives were, I don't know. But, it would have to be a hell of a good story to make me think it was innocent.

And, you're right about the U.S. No country is as hard on visiting boaters, about everything, as the U.S. is. I am often amazed that any foreign cruisers are willing to put up with us and our over regulation of everything.

Next to us, the Bahamas barely have any entry requirements at all. We, as guests, should certainly adhere in all respects to the ones they do have.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

Here's the entire post:

So, are they unarmed?

If so, thee crew of the Mia were very civilized in not ordering the crew of the P-44 off their boat at gunpoint.

This implies that a natural response would have been to draw guns on unarmed authorities. If not, why even post it? To point out that the crew were brought up with a knowledge of the implications of law?

It is not that they were "civilized" not to so act. It is that so acting would have made them dangerous criminals.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Group9

I think you misunderstand me.

I think the Bahamians were right in what they did to these people, and like you, I wouldn't have been upset if they had been punished a lot more severely. As to why they did it, or what their motives were, I don't know. But, it would have to be a hell of a good story to make me think it was innocent.

And, you're right about the U.S. No country is as hard on visiting boaters, about everything, as the U.S. is. I am often amazed that any foreign cruisers are willing to put up with us and our over regulation of everything.

Next to us, the Bahamas barely have any entry requirements at all. We, as guests, should certainly adhere in all respects to the ones they do have.

Not exactly that I misunderstood, but was seeking the clarity you so excellently provide in this post!

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

This implies that a natural response would have been to draw guns on unarmed authorities. If not, why even post it? To point out that the crew were brought up with a knowledge of the implications of law?

It is not that they were "civilized" not to so act. It is that so acting would have made them dangerous criminals.

We know they are, "authorities," now because we're reading the story after the fact.

Yachts have been boaded by pirates posing as law enforcement.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

We know they are, "authorities," now because we're reading the story after the fact.

Yachts have been boaded by pirates posing as law enforcement.

Get serious. How many people have been killed as a result of that? Give me the numbers. And have you ever seen these dudes? I have. They sometimes have "Polise" or similar painted on the side of their tiny wood launch. A mate of mine got rid of a couple of such last year by having a polite chat with them then chucking some T shirts over their heads into the boat. He is from California by the way, and that was off Batam island, Indonesia, just South of the Singapore Straits.

Further, it may interest you to note that in MANY parts of the world the ACTUAL police and local authorities don't have regular uniforms and may not indeed appear to be more than a bunch of renegades with guns… so what are you suggesting? That you just pull guns on whomsoever appears, to you, not to be a bona fide "authority", particularly if they are unarmed????

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

... so what are you suggesting? That you just pull guns on whomsoever appears, to you, not to be a bona fide "authority", particularly if they are unarmed????

Great question.

What I am suggesting is that when people have guns it is civilized not to use them.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

Great question.

What I am suggesting is that when people have guns it is civilized not to use them.

Well yes it is. But that sentiment is not in any way the impression given by the wording of your initial post. I mean, why state the obvious in such a peculiar manner if so?

And as to that, the vessel intercepting the Mia would have appeared pretty much along the lines of this:

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

I mean, why state the obvious in such a peculiar manner if so?

Great question:

I did state the obvious, because the obvious is often overlooked.

[SailMonAmi]

Originally Posted by ChrisTinaBruce

Agreed, the mistake was not declaring the two guns upon entering another country. A fine for not declaring a fire arm is one thing...smuggling? Really?

I'm with you ChrisTinaBruce. I have mixed emotions about international cruising. Surrender your ability to protect your family and possessions or risk arrest and/or hefty fines for a very limited self-defense.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

We know they are, "authorities," now because we're reading the story after the fact.

Yachts have been boaded by pirates posing as law enforcement.

In the Bahamas? When? Have you ever seen what P-44 or the other Bahamian Patrol boats look like? Even Ray Charles could look at one of them and know it was a police boat.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

What? Americans don't have a God given right to do whatever they damn well please in any country they choose?

Only from above 35000 feet.

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by SailMonAmi

I'm with you ChrisTinaBruce. I have mixed emotions about international cruising. Surrender your ability to protect your family and possessions or risk arrest and/or hefty fines for a very limited self-defense.

In that case, you should probably remain safely ensconced within the borders of Fortress America... Rarely do the rewards of traveling the world justify the extraordinary risk of venturing anywhere else unarmed, anyway - best to stay put right here in the Land of the Free, and Home of the Brave...

Besides, what else out there can possibly match the challenges of cruising the ICW, anyway?

;-)

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by SailMonAmi

I'm with you ChrisTinaBruce. I have mixed emotions about international cruising. Surrender your ability to protect your family and possessions or risk arrest and/or hefty fines for a very limited self-defense.

Self defense is only a vanishingly small part of the experience of cruising the world for almost all who do so. And not having the "right to bear arms" in foreign countries does in no way mean "surrender[ing] your ability to protect your family and possessions". Indeed, the possession of guns aboard, it seems to me, reduces your ability effectively so to do, and increases the likelihood of violence befalling them. By the way, much of the world is safer in general than the US, to include much of the third world.

For the avoidance of doubt and in general, it should be understood that I bear zero antipathy towards the US or its citizenry generally, and consider the likes of New England, to state one example, to be one of my favourite places on Earth, with many of my favourite people!

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by SailMonAmi

I'm with you ChrisTinaBruce. I have mixed emotions about international cruising. Surrender your ability to protect your family and possessions or risk arrest and/or hefty fines for a very limited self-defense.

You can't bring your domestic laws with you to a foreign country. It doesn't work like that. If you're too scared to subject yourself to the laws of another country, stay home.

One of the scariest places many Americans visit is Canada, but some manage to survive the horrors of Niagara Falls and Peggy's Cove without an arsenal. I guess they must just be lucky.

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