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Old 04-03-2016, 16:48   #1
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Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

About 12 months ago we bought a sailing cat. from a large multihull broker in SE Qld. The vessel has been privately imported by the previous owners. We received a gas compliance certificate from the broker, registered the boat in Queensland (it had lapsed NSW registration when we bought it) and have been happy for a year or so until.........

We bought a new gas cook top as part of readying ourselves to move aboard and go cruising this season. Gas fitter informed us that none of our gas fittings, from the regulator to the current oven, were Australian compliant.

Many dollars will be required to achieve compliance. Our broker, on being informed of this information was not really interested, let alone helpful. Mumbled something about it being our responsibility to have checked everything on purchase. Our surveyor, at the time, noted the certificate and moved onto the next item.

Question: Does the broker have any responsibility/liability in regards to this matter. They commissioned and provided the gas certificate.

Happy to hear any and all opinions on this matter.

Many

Guzzisti
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Old 04-03-2016, 17:02   #2
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Re: Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

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Originally Posted by Guzzisti View Post
About 12 months ago we bought a sailing cat. from a large multihull broker in SE Qld. The vessel has been privately imported by the previous owners. We received a gas compliance certificate from the broker, registered the boat in Queensland (it had lapsed NSW registration when we bought it) and have been happy for a year or so until.........

We bought a new gas cook top as part of readying ourselves to move aboard and go cruising this season. Gas fitter informed us that none of our gas fittings, from the regulator to the current oven, were Australian compliant.

Many dollars will be required to achieve compliance. Our broker, on being informed of this information was not really interested, let alone helpful. Mumbled something about it being our responsibility to have checked everything on purchase. Our surveyor, at the time, noted the certificate and moved onto the next item.

Question: Does the broker have any responsibility/liability in regards to this matter. They commissioned and provided the gas certificate.

Happy to hear any and all opinions on this matter.

Many

Guzzisti
Perhaps an email to the entity that required the certificate in the first place highlighting the fraudulent nature of the certificate issued, including the broker's comment. And don't forget to cc the broker.
Sit back and see what happens.
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Old 04-03-2016, 18:49   #3
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Re: Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

The broker is not qualified to determine whether the system was compliant.

Take it up with the issuer of the certificate. They could face a lot of strife and may well be interested in ensuring that your boat really is compliant in accordance with the certificate they issued
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Old 04-03-2016, 18:58   #4
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Re: Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

So you didn't deal direct with the examiner? If you relied on the Broker who contracted and retained the examiner you may still have cause under the fair trading act.

Having said that, sometimes some examiners will interpret things differently to others, might be worth a second opinion
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Old 05-03-2016, 13:03   #5
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Re: Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

Give it up! Make them compliant and feel safer, some things are not worth the worry!!!
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Old 05-03-2016, 13:36   #6
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Re: Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

I would take it up with the proper authorities who issued the certificate.
As a proper papered tradesman I would never put my name to anything I hadn't personally checked out and done right. People die from co2 poisoning if their vents or chimneys aren't built right in my case.
It's a big deal falsifying documents, could lose your papers or license.
I wouldn't let it go, I'd try to nail them to the wall especially if you have to pay out of pocket to have everything upgraded, might save the next guy a big hassel and some money.
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Old 05-03-2016, 14:50   #7
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Re: Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

+1

Nail them to the wall. And if you can get them to fix your system first, then good onya. But be sure they gets their comeuppance, because the next certificate could get someone hurt.


Paul.
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Old 05-03-2016, 17:02   #8
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Re: Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

Tear it all out, put in an Origo.
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Old 05-03-2016, 17:50   #9
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Re: Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

I can understand what you are going through. It seems to me every gas fitter interprets the regulations differently. it is not the brokers problem he is just a third party in this situation. As a surveyor I only note the location of the gas bottle and that it drains overboard.
The trouble is that often the gas pipe is buried behind the hull furniture and that can cost a fortune to replace.
If the pipe is compliant then I am not sure where the big expense is coming from? You will probably need a new regulator, shut of valve and the gas fitter will put his own connection from the stove to the gas pipe, but beyond that? Have you tried another gas fitter......maybe one who has not adjusted his price after seeing your large multihull?
Good Luck
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Old 05-03-2016, 18:15   #10
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Re: Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

So what we don't know is how old the cat is. Was the certificate issued when the boat was new? Is the gas setup a retrofit and if so when it was done who did the work and had the certificate issued.

The argument I see coming is in regard to modifications made since the certificate was issued.

Yes you will have to fix the issues, but the big question remains who is responsible for covering your costs.
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Old 05-03-2016, 18:59   #11
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Re: Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

Funny thing, when I saw the title my immediate reaction was "I bet he comes from Queensland". Having moved to Q in 1999 after spending most of my life in South Australia I am still frequently shocked at how shonky this State is. A boat licence seems to cost a slab of beer as did the roadworthy certificate on a car we bought.
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Old 05-03-2016, 19:00   #12
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Re: Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

Umm, you've made sure your current gas fitter knows what he's talking about in regards to a boat installations? Could he be thinking it needs to be the same as a residential installation?

When we brought our boat, it came with a gas inspection cert which makes it occur to me that it must be a mandatory requirement on sale in Qld. Even though someone must have physically inspected the system as the gas cylinder, regulator and hose had been replaced, I personally would have failed it if I were the inspector based on nothing more then common sense. Not that I'm a gasfitter, of course.
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Old 05-03-2016, 19:09   #13
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Re: Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

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Originally Posted by Fore and Aft View Post
I can understand what you are going through. It seems to me every gas fitter interprets the regulations differently. it is not the brokers problem he is just a third party in this situation.
I agree with Fore and Aft. Seems the QLD regulations are open to personal interpretation. And individual licensed gas fitters are happy to interpret personally.

The slab of beer factor, as mentioned by CapnBazza, is also a factor. Face it, QLD is part of Aus. The Reserve Bank of Aus, Australia's central bank and guardian of the currency, has set a high standard: it bribed foreign politicians in its attempt to sell plastic banknote tech.




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Old 05-03-2016, 19:19   #14
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Re: Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

The question would appear to be where and how the broker obtained the certificate. If he obtained it from the last owner, he could honestly say "Not my problem, I just passed it on" and the fraud would have been by that last owner--or whoever supplied the certificate.


If the broker actually obtained the certificate from some inspector, then you might go against both of them. In the litigious Colonies, when we aren't sure which of several parties actually is responsible, we sue them all jointly and let them explain which one(s) are actually at fault. Then the judge decides who to believe, and who gets charged with the fraud. And made to pay.


Usually you would go to a civil authority, an "Attorney General's Office" or similar and ask them to file charges of criminal fraud and investigate the matter. Sometimes a simple lawyer's letter to the likely party (the broker? or last owner?) asking if they would like to correct this without the need to pursue fraud charges, will get the necessary response.


But the prime question is what hat did who pull that certificate out of?
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Old 05-03-2016, 22:29   #15
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Re: Dodgy Gas Compliance certificate

Firstly welcome to CF

Im not quite clear on something. Was it a 'dodgy' certificate or was it a certificate issued prior to the vessel being imported?

It seems like your talking about a system that does not meet Queenslands standards, if thats the case then its not anything dodgy about the origional certificate.

Im in a similar situation. My system hasnt been upgraded for over twenty years. I cant get a gas fitter to fix, replace or repair anything as the entire system no longer complies, so he wont touch it.
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