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Old 07-08-2013, 21:31   #121
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by jeanathon View Post
Delancy,
What does the harbor master say? What do your neighbors think?
From your posts it seems you are the only one patrolling the docks. Did they give you one bullet to keep in your shirt pocket?
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Old 07-08-2013, 21:55   #122
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Delancy,
What does the harbor master say? What do your neighbors think?
From your posts it seems you are the only one patrolling the docks. Did they give you one bullet to keep in your shirt pocket?
Let's just say there was some dock drama that night which resulted in a dispute between two parties. I was out sailing at the time so I can't say firsthand what happened. I'm not sure if anything will come about as a result of what happened and I would rather not speculate but I will say the police were called.

What is clear and I am not making up as has been suggested is that the offending vessel was trespassing and that he restricted free navigation of the waterway by marina tenants.

As before there is no harbor master, this is a small private marina and a very tight knit community set in an urban area. The individual who unfortunately grounded his boat that night is widely regarded as an excellent sailor and a charitable guy not deserving of being imposed upon by a selfish prick such as he was.

Regarding the marina management and their position, I think at this point if you park your boat here uninvited you can expect to come back and find it with a chain on it. The police will have been called and you will be prosecuted. Sorry a few bad apples had to ruin it for all you nice naive people who think you are an exception to the rule. Thems the breaks
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Old 07-08-2013, 22:11   #123
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by Richard5 View Post
So why is that dock accessible? I imagine others are also trying to visualize the set up at the marina in question. Could it be that at that dock there is a size restriction on vessels?
It's a tight spot to get in and out of. I have helped the management move delinquent tenant's boats in there to prevent flight risk instead of chaining them as they do not possess the boat handling skills required to get their boat out. Kinda funny actually. They paid up quick.

Of the boats that berth there one is a runabout, the other a J-24, a bunch of dinks, then the guy who grounded out has a 33' sailboat that draws 5' with a beam of almost twelve feet, very tight in there.

With some dickhead blocking the way I am not surprised he grounded but he thought he could make it. As before he didn't really have any other options. I am certain he went in very slow because that's the way he is so hopefully it won't be bad.
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Old 07-08-2013, 22:28   #124
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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It's a tight spot to get in and out of. I have helped the management move delinquent tenant's boats in there to prevent flight risk instead of chaining them as they do not possess the boat handling skills required to get their boat out. Kinda funny actually. They paid up quick.

Of the boats that berth there one is a runabout, the other a J-24, a bunch of dinks, then the guy who grounded out has a 33' sailboat that draws 5' with a beam of almost twelve feet, very tight in there.

With some dickhead blocking the way I am not surprised he grounded but he thought he could make it. As before he didn't really have any other options. I am certain he went in very slow because that's the way he is so hopefully it won't be bad.
Thank you for your response. But I do not see an answer to my question. I had asked a specific question based on something you had said. If, as you had said, to tie up at that dock the channel will be blocked, then why is that dock accessible to docking a vessel there? In consideration that the dock may be open to docking, I speculated that perhaps there is a size limitation on vessels using that particular dock. And perhaps the offending vessel exceeding that size limitation.

I will appreciate your comments to that specifically.
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Old 07-08-2013, 23:16   #125
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

The spot in question is a dock that runs parallel to the shore. In spite of it being a dock no one parks there because if someone does, as we now know, then you cannot safely get into your berth inside without running aground.

I would draw you a picture but frankly I'm not really that invested and don't really care if you can't figure it out. I'm also not sure why you care or what significance it is to you.

You might not know not to park there if you were a stranger who didn't belong there in the first place but having to put a sign up telling strangers not to park there makes as much sense to me as having to put up a no trespassing sign on your house to keep strangers out.

Someone trespassed at our marina and as consequence some bad things happened that shouldn't have. As always, I came to this forum to gain knowledge where I was lacking and for that I am grateful. Thank you, you individuals who have contributed constructively to the dialogue. I can only hope that because of my posting some people might stop to think a bit about what they're doing, think about how it might affect other people, and maybe as a result the world will be a little bit nicer place to go sailing.
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Old 08-08-2013, 00:26   #126
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

Well I guess if you told us the marina, we could Google map it.
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:43   #127
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

To the OP,

The marina owner is actually in danger of loosing the right to keep non paying dock users, or at least the one who might be willing to to sue for the right, from using the path between the dock and the gate by virtue of prescriptive rights. In other words, as each day passes, an easement is being created.

"In either prescription or adverse possession, the right is acquired only by actual, continuous, uninterrupted use by the claimant of the lands of another, for a prescribed period. In addition the use must be adverse under claim of right and must either be with the knowledge of the owner or so open, notorious, and visible that knowledge of the use by and adverse claim of the claimant is imputed to the owner. In both rights the use or possession must be inconsistent with the owner’s use and enjoyment of his lands and must not be a permissive use, for the use must be such that the owner has a right to a legal action to stop it, such as an action for trespass or ejectment."

Granted, "the prescribed period" is usually very long, 20 years in Florida. And it is unlikely that some guy with a beer gut and pontoon boat actually knows about about any of this or even cares to go to court. Still, the marina owner needs to nip it in the bud.

If you would like the marina to take action, just pass this information to them and they will likely do something besides ignore the problem.

Good luck,
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:34   #128
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

Why do you keep avoiding telling us how wide the channel is? If it's clearly an obstruction some estimate of the width would tell us if you are being reasonable.

Other than the "possible" restriction to navigation the rest of your story is exactly like your 20yr old treaspassing.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:58   #129
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Well I guess if you told us the marina, we could Google map it.
Or come visit .
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:05   #130
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Well I guess if you told us the marina, we could Google map it.

I wouldn't put the location of a small, unsecured marina out there where anyone could find it just to satisfy people who want to pick apart what someone else is saying.

Now, nowever, the OP's being bothered over this makes more sense. He has had to help untangle the mess.

I also believe him about the grounding. I lived in a small marina where you had to know where to go to avoid grounding, and a big boat in the wrong place would have caused groundings there. Now, it would be the trespasser's fault, but a resident who would have gone aground.

It makes complete sense to me now. Could have happened where I used to live.
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:26   #131
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

Just a WAG.........




Green arrow?
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:44   #132
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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People who trespass deserve to have their boats chained up, it's as simple as that.
Someone earlier mentioned the analogy of having someone park in your driveway.

The very LAST thing I'd want to do in that situation is to put a Denver boot on that car.

I want my driveway and access back, not continued to be obstructed.

I've read this entire thread and remain amazed at some of the leaps of faith and just incredible jumps to conclusions.

It would seem to be possible to consider moving the intruders dock lines a little bit to clear his boat from the channel and the hazard to navigation. I especially like the long thoughtful discussion of how a harbormaster should KNOW his marina. The clanging halyard analogy was also superb.

Move the darned boat. Chaining it up where it is will only serve to lengthen the time the channel is blocked. It's a matter of defining the goal: Is it to "capture" the offending skipper and/or his boat for $ renumeration? Is it to teach a lesson? Is it to clear the channel for safe navigation? Is it to repair what seems to be as presented a recurring problem due to easier access at that particular dock? Is it to improve and/or reasonably secure the access to that dock by using "better" access methods (i.e., no more "easy out" locking mechanisms)?

Answer those questions first, then begin to make decisions.

I've seen chains used, indeed on a neighbor's boat, but only after years of neglect and non-payment of his slip rental fee. My thought was: "Gee, by chaining him in, all they did was guarantee they couldn't rent that slip to anyone else." The chain was there for six months or more before the guy finally showed up, moved his stuff off the boat, and it was put up at auction. Finally got rid of a five year eyesore.

And I did climb on his boat and tie off his damned halyards!
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:56   #133
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

I read page 1 and then jumped to page 5. I don't really have a lot of pity for people who feel it is their right to do whatever they what. So as to the original question I feel:

- you can not just cut the dock lines and set the boat adrift
- the marina has a right to move the boat, have it towed, or chain it to the dock

A-holes don't change their behavior unless their actions start having consequences to themselves!
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:04   #134
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Well I guess if you told us the marina, we could Google map it.
Sigh, eyes rolling into the back of my head.

True I could have put it on the map, it's also true that you could have just shared whatever valuable pearl of wisdom or personal experience that was relevant with the forum.

Instead you chose to imply I was lying or fabricating details when I have already demonstrated myself a fair and objective person. I didn't have to tell people I stayed ON my boat while it was affixed to something I hadn't secured permission to use prior. Twenty years ago. When sailing was different. I did so because I try to be as honest with myself and others as I can be, it's a lifestyle choice.


Sorry, New Yorkers don't tolerate fools well and I don't have time for layabouts or want to encourage them. If you can't get on google maps and figure out yourself where I am talking about with your lazy fingers based on information I have already provided, then you needn't be so burdened with curiosity.


DOJ - I f***** love you mate! you are always spot on. New York loves you too and you will always find safe harbor and a welcoming by friends here. Turn your green arrow from 180 to 90 and you have your spot.

The pontoon boat dude tied up at the end of the "L" on the outside, directly across from the tree at the edge of the water. The shore beneath the curved walkway is all gnarly rip rap.

I clearly stated previously that the pontoon boat's beam occupied half the channel. The reason I didn't put it on the map is because the unique conditions of the site DON"T MATTER.

Nothing changes the fact the guy was trespassing. Nothing changes the fact that he left the boat unattended, which is a apparently a crucial detail that some people here can't grasp.

Lastly, nothing changes the fact that the guy who left his boat unattended did so in a fashion that restricted navigation of the waterway by a marina tenant and created an obstruction.

Seriously.

Raku- it really amazes me. Some people her think security is a joke. We have had a couple single women here over the years. This spring someone tried to push open the companionway of one girls boat while she was sleeping. She awoke and resisted and the guy went away. The first phone call she made wasn't to the cops. It was to us, her friendly helpful neighbors. Glad to be here.
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:40   #135
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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DOJ - I f***** love you mate!
Steady on old boy .

Perhaps also a caution to everyone that the digital footprint we all leave can very easily lead to own front door......or hatch! (and that without any computer mumbo jumbo jiggery pokery involved).
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