"Dock Lines will be Cut!"

[Capt Phil]

Years ago while towing log booms in the PNW, we used to get weathered in behind some of the smaller islands occasionally. Pleasure craft, both power and sail, tring to avoid the same bad weather would raft up the the log boom at night using the conveniently placed boom chains as tie off points. Invariably, we would leave at 0 dark 30 when the ocean flattened out and would check out the rafted pleasure craft through the binocular around 5-6:00 am. By this time we were perhaps 30 miles from where they rafted up and their mooring lines could be under a couple of feet of water as the boom chains they had tied to the night befoe hade twisted under the boom stick or some other problem making them difficult to release.
I recall watching folks out on the deck or the logboom itself, waving, trying to get our attention not realizing that to bring in the tow line, drop the tow and return to the pleasure boat to get them untangled and on their way was time consuming and a PITA.
Usually , we just let them sort it out themselves. Listening to them over the VHF was amusing as many were pissed about their predicament and unsure where they were as this was before the days of GPS and few had loran. We had many laughs over their antics when the woke up! Phil

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

We have all been there. Coming into a unfamiliar marina at 2am. One time I was so frustrated that I found the fuel dock went out about .5 miles and anchored. USCG got me up 4 hours later and had me move my hazard to navigation. They had moved the channel through the bay the week before, but were still setting up the buoys. Stuff happens. Now a repeat offender is a different matter. I'm just saying let's not grab the torches for illegal parking just yet.
He who has never tied up/anchored without permission can fire the first torpedo.

I don't think we have to be "grabbing the torches" to say "If you don't have a true marine emergency (which does not include "I'm on a schedule") -- don't act like a jackass.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

It all depends on the legal system in place. Generally, if they cut your lines and this results in a damage to your property, you can sue them.

b.

6 teeth and a pint of blood...

[westernspirit]

Want to hear something funny? My last trip out I called ahead (or so I thought) for an overnight slip at our destination. The slip assignment. tie orientation, directions around the breakwater all made sense and we tied up for the night. Enjoying a beautiful morning the next day when owner of the slip shows up trying to pull into their slip with their boat! We quickly moved and long story short I had called a different marina(speed dial on phone issue), was at the wrong marina, my mistake. The owners were complete gentlemen/ladies, laughed it off, very nice. SO innocent mistakes happen.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Group9

The problem is that this is going to be governed by each state's particular laws and there is not going to be a one size fits all answer.

Thread winner.

But I would point out there are also some local laws that may apply. In Florida there are currently a few cities/counties that have anchoring restrictions. In some cases the restrictions make sense due to strong tides. In other cases the restrictions are a result of the land owners not wanting those crummy boat guys messing up their view of the water.

My boat is on a ball at a marina. I get a sticker and plastic tie on to ID my tender and it must be displayed at the dinky dock. If there is a boat without a sticker a thick cable and padlock is used to secure it. There is a $US20.00 charge to use the dinky dock for boats not on a ball or at the big boat dock.

Not trying to defend the OP but he never claimed he left his boat when he was using a dock without permission. If you leave a boat unattended, especially if there is any chance it is a hazard to navigation, this is a much different situation.

No tresspassing signs may or may not be required, but again if you abandon your boat you need to consider what would happen if someone untied the lines let it drift a couple of feet, and jumped on the boat and claimed salvage rights.

There is also the chance of just plain old theft or a simple joyride by some local yahoos. My Dad had this happen to his 38ft Abaco schooner. Three high school kids jumped a fence, untied the boat, and drifted about 100 yards downwind, ran aground, got mad, and opened several cans of food and threw the contents all over the cabin interior.

Bottom line is if the boat was partially in the channel restricting navigation the marina is probably required by law to call TowUS, or the like, and move the boat; or in the alternative subject the marina to liability if a boat is damaged trying to dodge the boat. I would have to see how the boat was secured but the marina might also have a cause of action if the guy (who according to the OP might be drunk) made any mistake securing the boat with proper fenders.

Just as an aside my marina requires proof of insurance to dock/moor there. Things have certainly changed since I started sailing in 1954.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

To be fair to OP, he could have omitted one part to make self look better - my take is that the difference is a matter of degree (which I suspect that OP has simply managed to badly convey ). Personally I have no problem with anyone using my mooring when I am not there, but if I came back and found someone who was either unwilling to move, felt was entitled and my return was an inconvenience to be borne grudgingly or someone made a habit of it (without asking first) even though they always moved when asked, then I too would be ticked off.

For me give & take is all part of the boat thing - just some folks more on the take end of things, and others have an "all mine" approach...........but that same on shore as afloat.

Thank You DOJ for recognizing I am not the type of person "to cast the first stone" but who has also sinned.

It is true what has been said elsewhere in the "if you don't agree with me" thread that people here are quick to react without really examining the content of what people are saying.

As stated previously, my interest in the subject is purely academic. What are a marina owner's right when it comes to trespassing? What course of action can one take? If I were to trespass on someone else's dock, what are the consequences I could suffer?

I never said I would cut someone's dock lines. I repeat, I NEVER SAID I WOULD CUT ANYBODY'S DOCK LINES.

After, reviewing the content of the discussion, I can say that IF I were a marina owner I would put a chain on a trespassing boat that was unattended and call the cops without thinking twice. Simple, if you don't like it don't park your boat somewhere it doesn't belong. If you turn out to be a vessel in distress, no problem. If it turns out you're just a selfish dick, then you can suffer the consequences.

We have a unique situation at our marina in that we have about 40 slips and the one across the way has about 500. Only psychopaths wake up in the morning and set out to do evil. That doesn't change the fact there are 500 "good" people who feel completely innocent in spite of making themselves a scourge on our quality of life.

After Hurricane Sandy, when the marina across the way was closed by the cops, we welcomed any and every liveaboard from that marina with open arms to use our dock facilities as required to access their homes. I haven't encountered one of those people trying to disrespectfully access our marina since.

It is pretty easy to tell the difference between a transient and a local and I never turn away a transient from landing the dink at our marina because they don't know better and because I would one day hope to have the same courtesy extended to me by someone else.

But when you interrupt my peaceful enjoyment of my home and selfishly invade my space with your obnoxious power boat by grinding away with your bow thruster because to do otherwise would be inconvenient for you, you better believe I am going to push back and embarrass you in front of your guests you are trying to impress and tell you to get the hell out and not come back.

As for people who persist in failing to recognize the distinction between tying up a boat and walking away for the sake of convenience vs. what I did grabbing an empty mooring twenty years ago, just so the can say they are right because I don't agree with them, you know what? You're right! There is absolutely no difference!

I still don't agree with you.

True, old sailing isn't quite the same as new sailing.

Cheers

[CPseudonym]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

Years ago while towing log booms in the PNW, we used to get weathered in behind some of the smaller islands occasionally. Pleasure craft, both power and sail, tring to avoid the same bad weather would raft up the the log boom at night using the conveniently placed boom chains as tie off points. Invariably, we would leave at 0 dark 30 when the ocean flattened out and would check out the rafted pleasure craft through the binocular around 5-6:00 am. By this time we were perhaps 30 miles from where they rafted up and their mooring lines could be under a couple of feet of water as the boom chains they had tied to the night befoe hade twisted under the boom stick or some other problem making them difficult to release.
I recall watching folks out on the deck or the logboom itself, waving, trying to get our attention not realizing that to bring in the tow line, drop the tow and return to the pleasure boat to get them untangled and on their way was time consuming and a PITA.
Usually , we just let them sort it out themselves. Listening to them over the VHF was amusing as many were pissed about their predicament and unsure where they were as this was before the days of GPS and few had loran. We had many laughs over their antics when the woke up! Phil

Phil, thats some good stuff there. One of these days our paths will cross and the first few rounds are on me.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Tellie

And they say sailors are the nicest, most accommodating, willing to help out a fellow sailor, people on earth.

yeah, alot of "not on my turf" going on here it sounds like to me. Cant count how many times I've pulled the dingy up to a dock trying find out about everything from restaurants to food to leaving trash. The "turf protectors" smack of the same people in Ft Lauderdale and elsewhere who dont want you anchoring near their houses and "spoiling their view". It's a fine line between trespassing, running aground and blocking an entrance and making an issue out of something that's none of your business.
I always enjoyed cruising in places like British Columbia where mostly they welcome you with open arms and "just tie up where you can" attitudes. Of course countries like Canada have the sense to make the shoreline "public".

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

yeah, alot of "not on my turf" going on here it sounds like to me. Cant count how many times I've pulled the dingy up to a dock trying find out about everything from restaurants to food to leaving trash. The "turf protectors" smack of the same people in Ft Lauderdale and elsewhere who dont want you anchoring near their houses and "spoiling their view". It's a fine line between trespassing, running aground and blocking an entrance and making an issue out of something that's none of your business.
I always enjoyed cruising in places like British Columbia where mostly they welcome you with open arms and "just tie up where you can" attitudes. Of course countries like Canada have the sense to make the shoreline "public".

That's a huge, and negative, jump.

We aren't talking about people coming up in their dinghy seeking information. He described someone blocking others' access. For-rent marinas won't say "just tie up where you want" -- ANYWHERE. It's their marina. They are entitled to expect payment and SHOULD protect the rights and safety of their resident boaters.

There's no "fine line" here except where people are imagining extra circumstances that the OP never mentioned.

I pay good money for my slip, and no, I don't want some freeloader blocking my safe access to the water. I don't want to come back and find that someone just decided to "borrow" my slip -- the marina would let me know if they had double-rented it.

The only thing I'm considering here is the OP's post -- not anything anyone else added on to it or imagined. This has *absolutely nothing* to do with self-entitled landlubbers who think their view of the water should b obstructed by boats. Nothing.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

yeah, alot of "not on my turf" going on here it sounds like to me. Cant count how many times I've pulled the dingy up to a dock trying find out about everything from restaurants to food to leaving trash. The "turf protectors" smack of the same people in Ft Lauderdale and elsewhere who dont want you anchoring near their houses and "spoiling their view". It's a fine line between trespassing, running aground and blocking an entrance and making an issue out of something that's none of your business.
I always enjoyed cruising in places like British Columbia where mostly they welcome you with open arms and "just tie up where you can" attitudes. Of course countries like Canada have the sense to make the shoreline "public".

I appreciate the sentiment but I liveaboard and the dock is my home. Is it really too much for me to expect to not have my home violated by strangers? Seeing boats when I admire the view from my home is what I pay for.


Having strangers make themselves at home in my home is not what I pay for.

Having them prop open the gate to my home and putting my security and the security of my neighbors at risk is not what I pay for.

Having me advise you to not come back and then you come back anyway is not what I pay for.

Lying to me and sneaking in through the gate behind someone is not what I pay for.

Picking up/dropping off your friends in the vacant slip next to me is not what I pay for.

Waking me up from sleeping because you are drunk operating a vessel in the middle of the night and crashing into the dock so you can drop off a friend is not what I pay for.

Dropping off your paying charter customers so they can have a pleasant day trip ashore and you can make money is not what I pay for.

Parking your boat and leaving it unattended so my neighbor can't get into his slip is not what I pay for.


Just because you have a boat at the marina across the way does not entitle you to come and go as you please at my marina.

It's not about being nice, it's not about going along to get along, going with the flow, or whatever. It's about respecting other people's property and privacy and not doing on to them what you wouldn't want them to do to you.

People who don't agree with me on this point are wrong. Not because they don't agree with me, but because are clearly demonstrating a lack of morality.

Pot calling kettle black people get over it. It's not the same thing and it happened twenty years ago. When I confessed it in my posting, I indicated I knew it was not right but also pointed out there was no harm as a result of my actions. If had a mooring ball and wasn't using it, have at it. Just leave when I show up. I never did anything I described above, which I find offensive, to anyone else.

[zboss]

No one should be cutting dock lines. The boat could sink or run into someone elses boat or property and destroy that as well.

We own several moorings clearly marked as "private". It is within my rights to lock the boat to the mooring with a chain and call the police to have the offender charged with trespassing. We never ever do this... we usually hunt down the offender and casually mention that he is on a private mooring, if he is nice about it then we usually let him stay. If he is a jerk, he immediately needs to move his boat. Really that simple. If we cannot find the master then we usually let it be unless a storm is coming, in which case we contact the police and put out a coconut telegram that the boat needs to be moved.

If we simply cannot find the person, we make sure they are using the mooring correctly, and leave a friendly note asking them to not do it again.

[Cheechako]

My rather longwinded comment was meant regarding the underlying tone of some of the reponses to the OP's post.

However I see I have touched a nerve.
I think this part of the response pretty much sums it up: "Picking up/dropping off your friends in the vacant slip next to me is not what I pay for"

OMG! someone actually used the empty slip nextdoor to drop off someone.. wow..how violating! call the Homeland Security quick!

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Delancy

I appreciate the sentiment but I liveaboard and the dock is my home. Is it really too much for me to expect to not have my home violated by strangers? Seeing boats when I admire the view from my home is what I pay for.


Having strangers make themselves at home in my home is not what I pay for.

Having them prop open the gate to my home and putting my security and the security of my neighbors at risk is not what I pay for.

Having me advise you to not come back and then you come back anyway is not what I pay for.

Lying to me and sneaking in through the gate behind someone is not what I pay for.

Picking up/dropping off your friends in the vacant slip next to me is not what I pay for.

Waking me up from sleeping because you are drunk operating a vessel in the middle of the night and crashing into the dock so you can drop off a friend is not what I pay for.

Dropping off your paying charter customers so they can have a pleasant day trip ashore and you can make money is not what I pay for.

Parking your boat and leaving it unattended so my neighbor can't get into his slip is not what I pay for.


Just because you have a boat at the marina across the way does not entitle you to come and go as you please at my marina.

It's not about being nice, it's not about going along to get along, going with the flow, or whatever. It's about respecting other people's property and privacy and not doing on to them what you wouldn't want them to do to you.

People who don't agree with me on this point are wrong. Not because they don't agree with me, but because are clearly demonstrating a lack of morality.

Pot calling kettle black people get over it. It's not the same thing and it happened twenty years ago. When I confessed it in my posting, I indicated I knew it was not right but also pointed out there was no harm as a result of my actions. If had a mooring ball and wasn't using it, have at it. Just leave when I show up. I never did anything I described above, which I find offensive, to anyone else.

I'm sorry...but how was your home being violated. I have also responded twice about restriction to navigation and you have remained silent on that one. Why is your security at risk if the "offender propped your gate open? Is it a bad and dangerous neighborhood where you are? I mean, probably the guy wanted to make sure he could get back to his boat if he was looking for the harbor master and could not find him. More over, why not be a good citizen and help him. Most likely after you meet him, you'll find he is just a regular guy...uh trespasser.
As to what you pay for...You pay for your slip only. Read your rental agreement. I'm sure it states nothing about your personal protection from such perpetrators...uh trespassers/regular guy. But you clearly have you heels dug in. I can always tell when someone says "People who don't agree with me on this point are wrong". But somehow because we don't think it a big of a deal as you, we "clearly demonstrating a lack of morality". Good thing no one takes this guy or you that serious.
I say it often to people...Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy...Come on...

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I'm sorry...but how was your home being violated. I have also responded twice about restriction to navigation and you have remained silent on that one. Why is your security at risk if the "offender propped your gate open? Is it a bad and dangerous neighborhood where you are? I mean, probably the guy wanted to make sure he could get back to his boat if he was looking for the harbor master and could not find him. More over, why not be a good citizen and help him. Most likely after you meet him, you'll find he is just a regular guy...uh trespasser.
As to what you pay for...You pay for your slip only. Read your rental agreement. I'm sure it states nothing about your personal protection from such perpetrators...uh trespassers/regular guy. But you clearly have you heels dug in. I can always tell when someone says "People who don't agree with me on this point are wrong". But somehow because we don't think it a big of a deal as you, we "clearly demonstrating a lack of morality". Good thing no one takes this guy or you that serious.
I say it often to people...Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy...Come on...

That's right, I pay for my slip which is in a private marina which is reserved for the exclusive use and enjoyment of the marina's tenants and their guests. It is not a town dock. If you are not a marina tenant or tenant's guest your are trespassing, in this manner you are violating my home. I can't believe I had to spell that out for you.

Regarding safety, I indicated there have been thefts in the past. As for where, not that it should matter, we're talking New York City not Nice-and-happy-village, Maryland where nothing bad ever happens.

As for the obstruction presented by the offending boat, as I have already indicated, it was occupying half the channel where the shore-side was rip rap.

For my neighbor, who grounded while trying to get in his slip, "simply moving the offending boat" was not an option as there was no where to move it to. Hence he elected to risk getting into his slip over not having anywhere to go and as a result has to have his boat pulled, that was the chance he took.

I seriously doubt anyone here anyone here can say with a straight face that this is a predicament they would care to face. If you can then you are a really good liar or else out-of-sorts.

I suppose he could have just tied the boat up somewhere else, which some people seem to think is perfectly acceptable, but that's kinda what this thread is about. Not tying up your boat and leaving somewhere it doesn't belong.

Signs are a good idea and I have been asking the marina to post them for some time. Now that there has been an incident maybe they will follow through but as has been pointed out on this thread "No Trespassing" signs are a required for a vacant field in the country or an empty lot in the city but are not required for a "structure or conveyance" for someone to be trespassing the same way as if someone walked into your house from off the street would be trespassing.

Obviously you don't think this is a very big deal. I think it is also obvious you don't have every Tom, Dick, and Harry traipsing through your marina whenever they feel like it or you might feel differently.

Some people have an interpersonal skill called empathy, it helps them understand how other people feel. You should check it out sometime. It's a skill criminals often lack and is part of the reason they crimes.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I mean, probably the guy wanted to make sure he could get back to his boat if he was looking for the harbor master and could not find him. More over, why not be a good citizen and help him. Most likely after you meet him, you'll find he is just a regular guy...uh trespasser.

A year ago when I still had belief in the kindness of strangers we had these two jokers from a transient mega yacht from across the way using our marina so they could go to the deli in the morning to get a newspaper and cigarettes.

I looked it up and the boat was for charter. I also discovered it was owned by a lawyer who won the case against big tobacco, somewhere I read something about him not paying taxes on the boat in the community where he kept it or something to that affect. Clearly they have money to take the two dollar ferry.

Anyhell, these guys come in on a 40 foot center console powerboat at 6:30-7:00 am, tie up with three gigantic outboard engines idling and while one guy props open the gate, the other sits on the boat looking at his phone. I am a little annoyed by the intrusion but whatever, let it slide, no big deal.

The next day, same thing happens. I'm thinking about security and the fact the guy minding the boat doesn't know who is a tenant and who is a stranger and besides he's not even watching the gate, he's looking at his phone.

So I go over to the boat and introduce myself and politely advise them that this is a private marina, reserved for the use of paying tenants, and that if they are planning on staying awhile they could contact the marina owner to arrange payment to use the marina. Otherwise I advise him not to come back. I gave them the owner's number, he said thanks and he would call.

Next day, same thing, they're back and the one guy props the gate open again. So I go ashore to use the head and lock the gate on my way out. When I come back the cigarette guy is standing at the gate looking unhappy calling his friend on the phone to come let him in.

"Do you have the code?" he demands, yeah but I'm not letting you in. Now his friend is coming up the dock and opens the gate. I ask the boat guy did he call the owner. He says yes, then why are you here if you don't have a code for the gate when I told you not to come back?

"Well, I called the owner and he didn't call me back"

Oh, well he didn't call you back so that makes it okay to do something you were asked specifically not to. I chased them off telling them not to come back and got some catty snotty reply about how they never would.

Guess what, the next morning they came back anyway but decided against landing with me standing there with a cold stare. Guess you when you got to get that nicotine fix, you got to get it.

This is a marina in an urban setting, there is no harbor master, we don't offer transient slips and don't advertise, these are not innocent cruisers, these are rude people who behave in a completely selfish and inconsiderate manner. The fact that some people here defend this type of behavior is beyond me.