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Old 06-08-2013, 16:00   #76
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

Irony?

How is tying up to an unoccupied mooring late at night in a strange harbor a dick move? How is tying up to a smelly gas dock after business hours is a dick move?

It's not like ever I left the boat unattended and in such a manner as to restrict anyone's navigation? I did it because it was late at night and I was in unfamiliar environment and felt the most prudent move was park the boat and wait until dawn before moving on.

If there was ever a phone number on the mooring ball I would have called it. I certainly have called a marina after hours before tying up at a gas dock and gotten a answering machine before.

Maybe the irony is that Valhalla and Tellie fail to understand the distinction between the two types of behavior in question but take it upon themselves to point out the incongruity between the two and call it irony anyway.
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Old 06-08-2013, 19:43   #77
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

Seems to be the usual anger from the usual angry people here. My drift is, the guy came in on an end-tie for a few hours then left. The OP was vague as to what constituted a restriction to navigation. The situation is really nothing to get your nickers in a twist about.
The proper edicate might be for the skipper to stay onboard and send the misses to go do what ever business was necessary. As pointed out earlier, boats have become real estate and newer sailors seem to have more of a right of entitlement. The docks of the past were generally a much friendlier place.
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Old 06-08-2013, 20:04   #78
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Re: "dock lines will be cut!"

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I'm not a mind reader, I respond to what had been said. Cutting lines was mentioned. I agree although "...had it coming." sounds ominous and threatening. Surely there is a better way to communicate without ultimatum or sounds of threat. I would. The duty of the harbor master is to know every boat, every owner, every contact number. That's why they are the master. So they aren't immediately aware of every boat coming or going but they do know their harbor. Another duty of the master is to prevent a problem from becoming chronic. That includes appearing before the city council if need be.

I recognize not every harbor or marina is so organized. I recognize a master may be in title only, to collect rents and so on. But a proper harbor master knows the condition of every dock, dock gate and companion way, every slip, every mooring, the depths, the tides, etc. And he would know of every problem in his harbor.

Before you think I am talking of some high falutin place, I have Morro Bay in mind. Rich and Jim sure knew how to manage their roles as masters. Both were approachable as long time friends even if you only have met them for the first time.

It ll reminds me of a sign I saw in a store that sold lots of fragile things:

"Unsupervised children will be given lots of caffiene and a puppy!"
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:43   #79
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Irony?

How is tying up to an unoccupied mooring late at night in a strange harbor a dick move? How is tying up to a smelly gas dock after business hours is a dick move?

It's not like ever I left the boat unattended and in such a manner as to restrict anyone's navigation? I did it because it was late at night and I was in unfamiliar environment and felt the most prudent move was park the boat and wait until dawn before moving on.

If there was ever a phone number on the mooring ball I would have called it. I certainly have called a marina after hours before tying up at a gas dock and gotten a answering machine before.

Maybe the irony is that Valhalla and Tellie fail to understand the distinction between the two types of behavior in question but take it upon themselves to point out the incongruity between the two and call it irony anyway.
So who compensates the marina owner for the lost revenue when you steal dockspace? Also, why is it the marina owners responsiblity to provide safe mooring when you planned your trip poorly? The fact that it's a smelly fuel dock has no bearing on the situation. By that logic, if your house looks run down, is it OK for me to pick the lock and spend the night there?

What about the stress when the mooring ball owner returns at 2am to find a strange boat already there (he did plan ahead and had a mooring ball ready). It's late, he's tired and now he has to deal with some unknown yahoo who's decided the rules don't apply to him.

I get the distinction: It's OK if you do as you please using others property but when others do it prepare for the wrath.
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:49   #80
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:31   #81
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
I get the distinction: It's OK if you do as you please using others property but when others do it prepare for the wrath.
To be fair to OP, he could have omitted one part to make self look better - my take is that the difference is a matter of degree (which I suspect that OP has simply managed to badly convey ). Personally I have no problem with anyone using my mooring when I am not there, but if I came back and found someone who was either unwilling to move, felt was entitled and my return was an inconvenience to be borne grudgingly or someone made a habit of it (without asking first) even though they always moved when asked, then I too would be ticked off.

For me give & take is all part of the boat thing - just some folks more on the take end of things, and others have an "all mine" approach...........but that same on shore as afloat.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:39   #82
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

I never have and never will leave my boat unattended and uninvited at a strangers dock or mooring. Simple enough, if the individual I referred to in my original posted had behaved likewise I would have never posted in the first place.

It's probably been close to twenty years since I borrowed a mooring or cozied up to the fuel dock and skipped without paying. At the time I was doing a mostly single or shorthand deliveries of racing boats and had schedules to keep that we're not my own. I planned my trips very well thank you very much.

Since these were paid gigs I didn't care much about expenses but because answering machines did not give receipts, if I had to go early to keep a schedule before someone showed up that I could give money to, that's just how it goes sometimes. That was before cell phones and when people use check books.

I know there are a few delivery skippers here on the site, lets see a show of hands from people who have been in the same boat and done the same thing.

Your comments about irony and black pots are like bubbles in my wake, I never left my boat unattended which is the key distinction here and why I am not a hypocrit. If I was blocking someone's slip I would have been there to move my boat. If someone showed up I would have had wallet in hand. I'm not a thief except I may have been by virtue of circumstance.

I missed most of the excitement at the dock this weekend was sailing western Long Island sound. Stopped at City Island on the way back to wait for the tide to change on the East River. Pulled into the first marina, they wanted $40 to tie up for two hours, no way. We saw multiple vacant moorings and went and asked a guy on one of them who owned them. He tried to call but no answer they don't listen to radio. Guy honks for the tender to pick him up, tender comes out, stops by. "We're waiting a couple hours for the tide to change" no problem, no charge, we invited him aboard for a beer. Meanwhile the anchor was on the bow ready to go at a moments notice the whole time.

There's always options in life including not being a dick. People who trespass deserve to have their boats chained up, it's as simple as that. If you tie up somewhere, however convenient it may be you, don't go ashore without leaving someone on board. Life is not that hard
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:43   #83
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

It all depends on the legal system in place. Generally, if they cut your lines and this results in a damage to your property, you can sue them.

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Old 07-08-2013, 06:54   #84
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
why is it the marina owners responsiblity to provide safe mooring when you planned your trip poorly?
BTW, I have spent enough time sailing around past 2AM just for fun to know you're not coming back to your empty mooring because, you know, you are really good at planning your trips and stuff. Night sailing is the best!
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:26   #85
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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So who compensates the marina owner for the lost revenue when you steal dockspace? Also, why is it the marina owners responsiblity to provide safe mooring when you planned your trip poorly? The fact that it's a smelly fuel dock has no bearing on the situation. By that logic, if your house looks run down, is it OK for me to pick the lock and spend the night there?

What about the stress when the mooring ball owner returns at 2am to find a strange boat already there (he did plan ahead and had a mooring ball ready). It's late, he's tired and now he has to deal with some unknown yahoo who's decided the rules don't apply to him.

I get the distinction: It's OK if you do as you please using others property but when others do it prepare for the wrath.

I have a real problem with "because you planned your trip poorly." I know someone who did and ended up in alligators up to his neck.

However, we all know that "saiing" and "schedule" are a poor fit, and that sometimes stopping for the night can be one of the most prudent things you ever did.

And there may not be anyone to ask permission from. Any sailor (or marina) would understand the need to deal with exhaustion, or a mechanical or sail problem, etc., etc., etc

The OP described a boater interfering with other sailors' ability to maneuver safely because it suited him at the time -- shortenend his walk, for instance.

I see a HUGE distinction between the two. No, we didn't get a lot of details, but he did not describe an emergency situation.

If I came upon a sailor who had lost his last anchor I would let him raft up to me (if he helped me deploy my second anchor, was willing to take turns checking for drag after dark and had the skills to do so -- and yes, I would wake up at his first shift to make sure he was taking that responsibility seriously). But I would be very upset if I came in and found another boat in my slip, using my lines.
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:42   #86
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

Most of you just love making up scenarios that the OP never stated. The OP said... ..."left his boat uninvited and unattended at our marina for a couple hours in such a manner as restricted navigation and hindered access to some our marina tenants causing them to risk a potential grounding to get in to their slips". Not 2am. Not for days and was very vague about what was meant by restricting navigation. But later the OP states that he has done it also..."Since these were paid gigs I didn't care much about expenses but because answering machines did not give receipts, if I had to go early to keep a schedule before someone showed up that I could give money to, that's just how it goes sometimes". So it was ok when he did it because he had a "reason".
This thread reminds me of the one about slapping halyards. Somehow, it's ok to cut docklines if the boat is not part of the clique but not ok to restrain clanging halyards of a neighbors boat to get a nights sleep. Amazing.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:02   #87
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by Delancy View Post
I never have and never will leave my boat unattended and uninvited at a strangers dock or mooring. Simple enough, if the individual I referred to in my original posted had behaved likewise I would have never posted in the first place.

It's probably been close to twenty years since I borrowed a mooring or cozied up to the fuel dock and skipped without paying. At the time I was doing a mostly single or shorthand deliveries of racing boats and had schedules to keep that we're not my own. I planned my trips very well thank you very much.

Since these were paid gigs I didn't care much about expenses but because answering machines did not give receipts, if I had to go early to keep a schedule before someone showed up that I could give money to, that's just how it goes sometimes. That was before cell phones and when people use check books.

I know there are a few delivery skippers here on the site, lets see a show of hands from people who have been in the same boat and done the same thing.

Your comments about irony and black pots are like bubbles in my wake, I never left my boat unattended which is the key distinction here and why I am not a hypocrit. If I was blocking someone's slip I would have been there to move my boat. If someone showed up I would have had wallet in hand. I'm not a thief except I may have been by virtue of circumstance.

I missed most of the excitement at the dock this weekend was sailing western Long Island sound. Stopped at City Island on the way back to wait for the tide to change on the East River. Pulled into the first marina, they wanted $40 to tie up for two hours, no way. We saw multiple vacant moorings and went and asked a guy on one of them who owned them. He tried to call but no answer they don't listen to radio. Guy honks for the tender to pick him up, tender comes out, stops by. "We're waiting a couple hours for the tide to change" no problem, no charge, we invited him aboard for a beer. Meanwhile the anchor was on the bow ready to go at a moments notice the whole time.

There's always options in life including not being a dick. People who trespass deserve to have their boats chained up, it's as simple as that. If you tie up somewhere, however convenient it may be you, don't go ashore without leaving someone on board. Life is not that hard
So by your logic, if you are busy and on deliveries, the burden is not on you to pay for the services taken.

Even if you are on the boat, it's a hassle and stress on my end because now I have to go to an unkown boat in the middle of the night wake up an unknown person then it may be an hour before they can get out of my slip because you didn't make the effort up front.

I fully understand that cruising and schedules don't go together but that doesn't excuse you from making the effort up front to arrange a mooring and then if it's after hours following up the next morning or if you must leave at the crack of dawn, calling up later in the day to offer payment. It's not convienent is not an excuse.

Personally, I think its all a little overblown. I've yet to come across a marina, I couldn't get into but it comes across as very hypocritical to go off on a rant implying you would like to cut thier lines and set them adrift and then state that you do the same thing (and yes it is the same thing).
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:13   #88
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

I am sure that technically, in the eyes of the law, ignorance is no excuse, but come on. I obviously wasn't there and don't know all of the details, but I can't help but think "cut the guy a little slack instead of cutting his dock lines."

In boating especially I constantly see people doing things incorrectly or breaking "etiquette" and more often than not they just don't know any better. It isn't that they are malicious/evil/trash/etc...they just don't know. And I know this to be the case because much of the time it is me making the mistake. I use this and other forums as a resource, I read tons of books, and I been around boats for 15 years, and still I screw up all of the time. Sometimes there is no substitute for learning from mistakes, and sometimes that takes someone pointing out the fact that you've even made one....but generally there is no need for that to be done abrasively.

I am always eager to learn anything I can, and I refuse to accept that I am alone in that. Maybe I am giving the "trespasser" too much credit, but I'd like to think that if respectfully informed that what he did was inappropriate he'd take hasteful action to right the wrong.

Can't fault a guy for dancing with your girl if he didn't know she was your girl, right?

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We're all in this together, right? If someone knows less than you, teach them. If they know more than you, learn from them.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:40   #89
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by DaBod View Post
I am sure that technically, in the eyes of the law, ignorance is no excuse, but come on. I obviously wasn't there and don't know all of the details, but I can't help but think "cut the guy a little slack instead of cutting his dock lines."

In boating especially I constantly see people doing things incorrectly or breaking "etiquette" and more often than not they just don't know any better. It isn't that they are malicious/evil/trash/etc...they just don't know. And I know this to be the case because much of the time it is me making the mistake. I use this and other forums as a resource, I read tons of books, and I been around boats for 15 years, and still I screw up all of the time. Sometimes there is no substitute for learning from mistakes, and sometimes that takes someone pointing out the fact that you've even made one....but generally there is no need for that to be done abrasively.

I am always eager to learn anything I can, and I refuse to accept that I am alone in that. Maybe I am giving the "trespasser" too much credit, but I'd like to think that if respectfully informed that what he did was inappropriate he'd take hasteful action to right the wrong.

Can't fault a guy for dancing with your girl if he didn't know she was your girl, right?

I use to fly helicopters and once after making a mistake a wise old pilot said, "sometimes the best way to learn what these machines can do is to figure out what they can't do."

We're all in this together, right? If someone knows less than you, teach them. If they know more than you, learn from them.
Exactly...If you see a guy pulling into a slip, tell him that he might be opening a can of worms. If he end-ties, ask him how long he'll be. Whats the use of holding a silent grudge?
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:49   #90
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

We have all been there. Coming into a unfamiliar marina at 2am. One time I was so frustrated that I found the fuel dock went out about .5 miles and anchored. USCG got me up 4 hours later and had me move my hazard to navigation. They had moved the channel through the bay the week before, but were still setting up the buoys. Stuff happens. Now a repeat offender is a different matter. I'm just saying let's not grab the torches for illegal parking just yet.
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