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Old 09-08-2013, 08:17   #166
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Someone earlier mentioned the analogy of having someone park in your driveway.

The very LAST thing I'd want to do in that situation is to put a Denver boot on that car.

I want my driveway and access back, not continued to be obstructed.

I've read this entire thread and remain amazed at some of the leaps of faith and just incredible jumps to conclusions.

It would seem to be possible to consider moving the intruders dock lines a little bit to clear his boat from the channel and the hazard to navigation. I especially like the long thoughtful discussion of how a harbormaster should KNOW his marina. The clanging halyard analogy was also superb.

Move the darned boat. Chaining it up where it is will only serve to lengthen the time the channel is blocked. It's a matter of defining the goal: Is it to "capture" the offending skipper and/or his boat for $ renumeration? Is it to teach a lesson? Is it to clear the channel for safe navigation? Is it to repair what seems to be as presented a recurring problem due to easier access at that particular dock? Is it to improve and/or reasonably secure the access to that dock by using "better" access methods (i.e., no more "easy out" locking mechanisms)?

Answer those questions first, then begin to make decisions.

I've seen chains used, indeed on a neighbor's boat, but only after years of neglect and non-payment of his slip rental fee. My thought was: "Gee, by chaining him in, all they did was guarantee they couldn't rent that slip to anyone else." The chain was there for six months or more before the guy finally showed up, moved his stuff off the boat, and it was put up at auction. Finally got rid of a five year eyesore.

And I did climb on his boat and tie off his damned halyards!

Exactly. Move the boat, after being sensible and posting signs about you and your close relationship with Boat US. Move the boat to where it's not a problem, chain it, and unchain it when the Boat US bill is paid.

Solve the problem for everyone. We help keep Boat US captains in business so they're in business and available when we have a problem. The marina demonstrates to its paying patrons that it takes their patronage seriously. The fairway is cleared, and the offending boat owner gets a lesson in boating. The lesson isn't free, but so often those lessons are not.

I absolutely believe that the offending boat owner realized that the owner of the marina might take some sort of steps but decided that he'd gotten away with it before and could glad-tongue his way out of it again, or he would have had found *someone* to explain his predicament to. He would have left a note on his boat explaining what happened, where he was going (surely for crucially needed parts?), when he would be back and what his cell phone number is.

If he didn't do that he's a bounder and should expect to be ... well ... bound ... at the place of the marina owner's choosing.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:18   #167
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by Don L View Post
I read page 1 and then jumped to page 5. I don't really have a lot of pity for people who feel it is their right to do whatever they what. So as to the original question I feel:

- you can not just cut the dock lines and set the boat adrift
- the marina has a right to move the boat, have it towed, or chain it to the dock

A-holes don't change their behavior unless their actions start having consequences to themselves!

I can't grasp why anyone thinks cutting the lines is a great solution.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:22   #168
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I was born in Hamilton. Have not been there for some time...Too cold. Our docks are gateless in Alameda where I am now. From the road in to the Marina is gated at night only. We have never had any real trouble from the street. That said, there was a lot of outboard thefts all up and down the estuary for a couple of weeks. The caught them eventually. They would stealth into the harbors during the wee hours in stealth mode.
I was in one marina in the Delta that actually allowed the homeless from the Islands out there to use the facilities. To me, that was taking it too far. I talked to the Harbor Master about it and was amazed with his reply..."Oh that's so and so,,,he's harmless". Sure, maybe I was judging the homeless as a possible theif because he had a cruddy old skiff with a near new Honda 4 stroke outboard, But I have to call them as I see them. It was not a liveaboard marina, so essentially, no after hour security. I gave notice and left a few months later.

Having outboards stolen is a very real problem. Having strangers living in extreme conditions have access to your boat (what was blocking him?) is a real problem.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:23   #169
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by Delancy View Post
New York isn't the financial and cultural capital of this county because it's full of a bunch of push-overs. At least not since the dutch came here. Think about it next time you trade some stocks or read a magazine.

Well ... the Natives were the original pushovers there...
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:27   #170
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

In the UK you can (or at least could) effectively "give" the Clamping rights to a company who would your land free from unauthorised cars for no cost to you - they just make their profits from the folks they clamp. Depending on locale they would either regularly check or respond to a phone call (tip off!). The principal would be the same in a Marina, the only question is whether would be legal in the locale concerned (tow and chain, until towing fee $$$ paid).
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:29   #171
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

Where's Judge Judy when you really need her.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:37   #172
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Exactly. Move the boat, after being sensible and posting signs about you and your close relationship with Boat US. Move the boat to where it's not a problem, chain it, and unchain it when the Boat US bill is paid.
Something in your post caused me to break my newly acquired code of silence.

So what if the offending boat is a liveaboard? It is their home. Is chaining that boat a 'taking', that if it was your home on land it would land the agency, etc in hot water?

I realize now this situation has little to do with the OP and discussion thereof.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:42   #173
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Financial...maybe...Cultural?...ROTFLMAO

Yes, cultural. Everything from the home base of THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS to the METROPOLITAN OPERA to the Metropolitan Museum to some of the best restaurants on the planet.

There's a museum in NYC dedicated to the art of the four branches of Buddhism. When my daughter and I went, they had hired a Buddhist artist from Nepal to paint a huge mural from the Buddha's life. He used a paint brush with one bristle.

He would add one small stroke, then contemplate the work for 10 - 15 minutes before adding one more small stroke. He completely tuned out the 40 - 50 people watching him work. What he had completed so far was beautiful and intriguing. It was such a remarkable experience to see what went into creating that art, and then go through the museum and realize that each thing we were looking at had uncounted hours of contemplation included.

That's ... cultural.


You're from Ontario. I'm from suburban NYC.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:43   #174
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
This was the question asked: 'Anyone know the law on this subject?'
And I believe that question was answered. You did not like the answer, so it must be wrong. Oh well. Don't put up a sign, then chain up and **** on someone's boat, and you will find out the details of the law when they sue you.

Unless it was answered by a lawyer, we don't have an answer.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:45   #175
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by Don L View Post
must be time to start talking about shooting the trespassing dockers, or at the least grabbing your anchor by the chain and spinning around in the air till you take their heads off

I can't BELIEVE we didn't think of that until now!!

We must all finally be growing up!

What a bummer ...
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:48   #176
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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The distinct irony is that this city bills itself as the world's biggest small town or some such rot. Composed of many communities, boroughs and what not, the big city is cosmopolitan and quaint. Perhaps the most incredulous irony is the provincial attitude of the dwellers of this place. 'You either live here or you are nothing' seems to be the mantra. It's Sinatra at heart.

To be sure, NYC is small geographically but what it lacks in sprawl is made up for in hob nobbery. Even CT olde money is no match.

I know several who live there, either on Manhattan or close in. My own step daughter lives there although in Glen Cove, which itself is beyond the demarcation of 'the city', therefore not truly therein.

Let's expose some history shall we? Due to a fortuitous latitude in relation to the northern Atlantic routes, NYC was found to be at an advantage. It is only a "financial center" because it was Neuw Amsterdam in the 1st place. Without the Dutch, NYC would be but swampy grasslands and an esturine confluence of rivers. But those Dutch were no saints. Stuyvesant, et al, were ruthless barbarians. My own ex-wife traced her ancestor to his 2nd hand man. A brute, a criminal, a genius with other people's money.

Culture? Only on Broadway I reckon. Or within the minds of the citizens of that place.

I would place NYC or NJ (north of the pine barrens) on my route only so I could delete them. Funny thing, whether in Montana, Banff, Denver, San Diego, or even San Francisco, you can spot these glorified city yokels a country mile away. Even Santa Fe and Taos laugh at ya'll...but gladly take yer money.

I joined this thread to initially lend some help through perspective. For that I got the hard line of the citified mind. The pejoratives flowed freely from this one, like one who would give the middle finger as a sign of welcome. I guess it's us hayseeds who don't take kindly to such treatment and for that we're labeled fools who are not to be tolerated. That's a funny way of welcoming another to your world. No thanks. I suppose we are in agreement, you stay on your side and I'll stay on mine.

So you never heard of the Metropolitan Opera ... or Museum ...

Broadway is not what it was in the past, completely taken over by Disney and the Disney mentality (do a remake, don't come up with a new show). In fairness, it's actually tremendously risky to put a new, unknown show up.

Although Disney came up with the musical version of LION KING. Believe or not the story is even thinner, but the dancing puppetry more than makes up for it. The staging is beyond amazing.

Only in NYC would it have happened.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:50   #177
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
I'm from suburban NYC.
Of course you are. Guessed as much from your first two words in this post. As, you see, it is only people who are from NYC that think NYC is the cultural center of the universe. That's what makes it so funny to those of us who know better.

The fact that it does have a couple of nice cultural features most certainly does NOT make it the "cultural capital" of anything at all!
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Old 09-08-2013, 09:38   #178
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
So you never heard of the Metropolitan Opera ... or Museum ...

Broadway is not what it was in the past, completely taken over by Disney and the Disney mentality (do a remake, don't come up with a new show). In fairness, it's actually tremendously risky to put a new, unknown show up.

Although Disney came up with the musical version of LION KING. Believe or not the story is even thinner, but the dancing puppetry more than makes up for it. The staging is beyond amazing.

Only in NYC would it have happened.
Au contraire. I have not ever been to a show on Broadway but I have been to numerous off Broadway shows. But for your stated examples I could direct you to numerous venues in other cities. Chicago's museum of Science and Industry is worthy. Udvar-Hazy and the Smithsonian. The Louvre...to name a few examples. Even Dublin has a fine museum equal to anything I have visited in NYC. Guess what, they all come sans the people pushing, 'I'm more important' attitude.

Oh yes, I have visited NYC a few times. I couldn't wait to leave. Now, after 5 visits I've had my share. I've washed off the crud. When what's his name sang, ...don't mind the maggots..., he wasn't kidding.

I'm sure it's just me and my ilk but I couldn't find a decent beefsteak in alla the city. Couldn't wait to get home for that. But hey, it's not Newark. Don't get me started on EWR.
Here's one just for you hon,

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Old 09-08-2013, 10:25   #179
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

I'm not sure an assistance towing company will just remove a boat unless there is some form of approved legal agreement with the city and or marina.
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Old 09-08-2013, 10:53   #180
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Re: "Dock Lines will be Cut!"

every marina I've ever been in has small print in the contract. that allows them to rent your slip if you are not there.
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