Do you think recreational boats should be licensed?

[rwidman]

I was boarded near Norfolk, VA by the USGC. They didn't ask to see a safe boating certificate but they did ask for a photo ID. I have yet to figure out why you need a photo ID to operate a small boat but not to vote!

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by psneeld

The USCG has little or no interest in State regulated boating safety regulations...they certainly have no jurisdiction unless they have a cross agreement with the states in a case by case area dependent basis.

All the people I know that the USCG have boarded, never even asked.

In NJ it's the state or local police and they can be rabid about it.

Usually, larger cruising boats aren't targeted as the officers are often by themselves and much more than a once over is difficult compared to small, vessels and personal watercraft.

OK understood. My comment related only to the discussion we had with the Aux CG who did our free vessel safety check last week. I fully appreciate that the most likely folk to want to stop us would be waterborne LE in some form and I hope we have all the documentation and 'stuff we should carry readily to hand. I hope also that the USCG sticker now displayed will go some way towards staving off a full all out inspection and, if asked, that my recently gained plastic Florida Boaters Licence Card will suitably impress them, enough at least to let us continue on our way reasonably unhindered. Failing that I guess, as I think I said before, we could decide to take the offshore option and simply by-pass DC and NJ waters if we decide to go that far north one summer to escape from the Florida heat.

Life afloat never used to be so complicated.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by Polux

If they found out the Ship will be arrested, the captain and possibly the ship owner will be finned.

the ship gets carted off to jail while the captain and ship owner are taken to the fishing pier where fish of al sorts will come and beat them aside the head with their fins. talk about cruel and unusual punishment

[GTom]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

The Swiss license I have us only for Swiss inland waters. For the sea license I would have to spend a lot of money....


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

First, sorry to revive an ancient thread

I am in the exact same boat, a bit worse, because I can't even get an ICC from the IYT anymore. Stranded with a "worthless" RYA Coastal certification and unsure if I can even sail the boat out of Spain that I am considering buying.

Option #1: hire someone for heavy $$$ to skipper the boat for me until France
Option #2: enroll a local (Swiss) course, "relearn" to tie a bowline, again for heavy $$$ + months of time
Option #3: hope the Spanish CG considers the leave of the boat an Innocent passage, I don't plan to cruise Spanish waters for a couple of years anyway.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by GTom

First, sorry to revive an ancient thread
Stranded with a "worthless" RYA Coastal certification and unsure if I can even sail the boat out of Spain that I am considering buying.

You have not explained why its worthless as yet..

It's a real BS as RYA and IYT certifications are marketed: said to be "accepted worldwide", yet that only applies to Brits.

Not to my knowledge.. I know several Portuguese who've taken the quicker RYA Offshore to get around the hassle of the Portuguese licencing process.. also I know there's a couple of RYA schools in Australia that run Zero to Hero course's.

[GTom]

The "worthless" was intended as irony of course, reflecting the debate between K_V_B and Polux.

I am interested here on the (Spanish/local) legislation, not the GC - as you explained to me a few times - forgiving attitude.

After a lengthy hunt I found the following law text (Real Decreto 875/2014) quoting accepted certifications (from p.117). Also says on page 20, that in case of a Spanish flagged vessel the certifications must be issued by the sailors country of residence or citizenship. For the non-Spanish flagged boat parts ("Disposición adicional quinta. Exigencia de titulación para el gobierno de embarcaciones de recreo abanderadas en otros Estados.") google translate gives up ("nacionalidad del patrón" - nationality of employer, wut?? on my own boat I don't want any employers), but true, I can't find anything related to the skippers residency .

[Sandero2]

Since this is much like slamming the barn door shut after the horses have left... perhaps some creative solutions should be sought.

Why not have a 1 or 2 year free holiday for people who get licensed... whatever that may be... After that the renewal should be very small... the cost of a couple of cheeseburgers.

Why not grandfather skippers who have have X years of experience and grant them a license if their experience can be verified?

Why not provide with a license a waterproof small crib sheet for COLREGs?

Why not exclude boats without motors (or motors less than 5HP or similar)? less than X feet?

Why not make the "written" test available online... with online free courses? The test can be in segments so as you pass them you don't take those again?

++++

Does anyone know where the fines from enforcement go?

Does anyone have figures on the cost of marine "police"? Presumably the jurisdictions on the waterfront have a revenue stream related to tourism and commerce... why should they assume most of the costs associated with a safe harbor, a harbor they are benefiting from?

I find it hard to accept the argument that a small license fee is excessive and oppressive government intrusion for someone who has a boat.

No you can't prevent dumb ... but you can try to find it and prevent it in some cases for causing harm.

Society and civilization is a social contract... it has benefits and costs.

[siamese]

No licensing needed.

If an unlicensed operator is throwing a wake in a no wake zone they should get a ticket.

I a licensed operator is throwing a wake in a no sake zone they should get a ticket.

What's the difference, other than a license fee which is essentially a tax?

There is a large group of the boating population that gets away with unlawful behavior when nobody's looking, and follows the law when they see that the Sheriff or the Coast Guard is nearby. Licensing won't change that.

Alcohol is often involved in the stupidity that leads to accidents. Licensing won't change that.

What's needed is more enforcement.

[Sandero2]

Originally Posted by siamese

No licensing needed.

If an unlicensed operator is throwing a wake in a no wake zone they should get a ticket.

I a licensed operator is throwing a wake in a no sake zone they should get a ticket.

What's the difference, other than a license fee which is essentially a tax?

There is a large group of the boating population that gets away with unlawful behavior when nobody's looking, and follows the law when they see that the Sheriff or the Coast Guard is nearby. Licensing won't change that.

Alcohol is often involved in the stupidity that leads to accidents. Licensing won't change that.

What's needed is more enforcement.

The point is not to simply PAY for a piece of paper which grants priviledge it is an effort to get people who operate a certain "class" of marine vessels to show a level of knowledge and competency. Admittedly this is not easy to test but things like being aware of COLREGS would go a long way toward safer boating and compliance with rules of the road.

This is not a TAX and those who perceive it as such as completely wrong.

[GTom]

Now I understand the Spanish licensing a bit more:

https://translate.google.co.uk/trans...ml&prev=search

Apparently lots of Spaniards wanted to abandon the Spanish flag, and they wanted to force them back to the Spanish certifications. However, I share the concern of the author (google translated):

This is required for Spanish vessels and it seems logical. However, in my opinion, the precept can be discriminatory, which is prohibited in the Community legal order. That a Belgian can sail in Spanish waters a yacht flagged in Belgium without title and can not make it a Spanish , simply for being Spanish, is a discrimination based on nationality.

Originally Posted by Sandero2

This is not a TAX and those who perceive it as such as completely wrong.

If not, then why don't they cross-recognize all licenses listed in their own law text??? Today's globalized world (especially EU...) people MOVE around for family/career/etc reasons and their citizenship not necessarily follows (e.g. Irish doesn't apply for a UK passport but takes RYA certifications - being Irish, not entitled for ICC either). If a government body does recognize certain certifications on one page, why not on the other?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by siamese

What's needed is more enforcement.

be careful what you wish for...

Licencing/registration is the most efficient means of identifying offenders... and also for missing-boater or search & rescue efforts. It's also a reasonable way to ensure that most skippers have had to look at COLREGS, navigation rules, the buoy system and safety at least once in their lives. Finally, the fee is a small offset against the cost of maintaining harbours and search & rescue.

[zeehag]

it seems all of you wish for nanny state to strengthen. i am all for keeping govt out of as much of our lives as is possible. teach boater safety to each kayak and other boat purchasors and let em be. they die--is darwin. go for it, folks. globalists wish for 80 percent depop. how can we depop when folks know how to use their equipment safely.
have at it boys,,hahahahaha
ps anyone in a kayak crossing immediately in front of a speeding big boat is a total idiot and has a death wish or is achmed the dead terrorist.
we already have boat licensing--the big clowns who need to speed thru a mooring field causing moored boats to bounce, and those in huge power boats who cannot for the life of em avoid a kayak or small sailboat and MUST swamp em--these HAVE licenses, yet where does it get anyone in a kayak.... dead, swamped... check self before checking the rest of the planet and keep govt out of our lives.

ps...i have watched as uscg aux in coronado californicashia SPEED in their grandbanks 32 thru the spacing between moored boats and swimming beaches. this is safe?? yet they seemingly have education against such demonstrations of abuse of power and idiocy.
ohmydogs
we NEED to license swimmers.

[Sandero2]

Originally Posted by zeehag

it seems all of you wish for nanny state to strengthen. i am all for keeping govt out of as much of our lives as is possible. teach boater safety to each kayak and other boat purchasors and let em be. they die--is darwin. go for it, folks. globalists wish for 80 percent depop. how can we depop when folks know how to use their equipment safely.
have at it boys,,hahahahaha
ps anyone in a kayak crossing immediately in front of a speeding big boat is a total idiot and has a death wish or is achmed the dead terrorist.
we already have boat licensing--the big clowns who need to speed thru a mooring field causing moored boats to bounce, and those in huge power boats who cannot for the life of em avoid a kayak or small sailboat and MUST swamp em--these HAVE licenses, yet where does it get anyone in a kayak.... dead, swamped... check self before checking the rest of the planet and keep govt out of our lives.

ps...i have watched as uscg aux in coronado californicashia SPEED in their grandbanks 32 thru the spacing between moored boats and swimming beaches. this is safe?? yet they seemingly have education against such demonstrations of abuse of power and idiocy.
ohmydogs
we NEED to license swimmers.

The issue is not dumb boaters killing themselves... but killing and injuring other innocent people.

cops are abusing laws all the time... so what? That's not an argument.

NO ONE WANTS A NANNY STATE.... that is not an argument.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Sandero2

The issue is not dumb boaters killing themselves... but killing and injuring other innocent people.

cops are abusing laws all the time... so what? That's not an argument.

NO ONE WANTS A NANNY STATE.... that is not an argument.

ok so tellme how licensing kayakers is going to help the awareness of the powerboaters who try to kill us??? please find and quote to us all here
one instance in which the accident and subsequent death of a boater,. kayak vs large stinkpot is the kayakers fault.
and how the hell is a kayak going to run over and kill anything. use your brain here folks.
more regulation is more govt control. can you not see that, and it is also unnecessary as those in need of regulation are those in the testy-osterony position of loose nut behind powerboat wheel. there are already laws on books these powerboating clowns refuse to obey. why would another law help.
be sensible.
so i want to know, how is regulation of kayaks going to help this.. it is not, as the issue is not the kayaker who usually knows regulations better than the powerboater, but the powerboater not knowing jack and being testosterone addled.

[Rough Magic]

Today a kayak, tomorrow a power boat... Motorcycles and semi's have to have driver's licenses to operate. Same as kayak and freighter; everyone should know the laws and rules of the road. I've seen sailors cut in front of large powerboats with the uninformed opinion that they have the right of way under all conditions. Not true. And if the skipper doesn't know why, then they need an education. A once in a lifetime, gotta know the rules license is not too much to ask to protect the lives of the children he has on his boat. MTC