Do you think recreational boats should be licensed?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

There are more pleasure boats in the Netherlands then in Spain and Italy combined. And that on a much smaller area.

Again, this is not borne out by the facts. Norway, Finland and Sweden each have a pleasure craft fleet of a bout 7 million. The UK and the Netherlands each about 5. I would therefore guess that the Baltic probably has several times the amount of pleasure craft the med has...

And the countries that border the med do not require licenses from "all that sail on those waters", since they don't require it from vessels under foreign flags...

I guess you are just being stubborn. I am not saying that Netherlands (Holland) has not more or less boats that Spain and Italy what I am saying is that it is not in there that you have a biggest concentration of cruising boats actually sailing but on the Med, including the ones from Netherlands.

What I am saying is that on the waters of Spain, Italy, Croatia, Greece and Turkey you have a much bigger density of cruising boats, actually cruising and sailing than in other part of the world, including obviously Netherlands. If you think otherwise is because you never sailed there.

The need to regulate the use of private boats and to diminish risks has to do with the number of boats sailing on the waters of a country, not with the number of boats that have a banner of that country. That's why those countries were the first to feel the need to demand licences to all skippers of pleasure boats sailing on their waters.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Polux

I guess you are just being stubborn. I am not saying that Netherlands (Holland) has not more or less boats that Spain and Italy what I am saying is that it is not in there that you have a biggest concentration of cruising boats actually sailing but on the Med, including the ones from Netherlands.

And my contention is that this is incorrect. Only a small minority of Dutch flag boats is sailing in the mediterranean. The majority is in the home country. The same applies to the UK. Or the Sweden.

What I am saying is that on the waters of Spain, Italy, Croatia, Greece and Turkey you have a much bigger density of cruising boats, actually cruising and sailing than in other part of the world, including obviously Netherlands. If you think otherwise is because you never sailed there.

I have sailed in the med multiple times. I like it because it's quiet compared to the waters I grew up with. I can leave the boat on autopilot for hours on end, without needing a course correction. Something you should never try on the Ijselmeer... Or the Solent.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are more more yachts in and around the Solent alone then in the whole of Croatia.

The need to regulate the use of private boats and to diminish risks has to do with the number of boats sailing on the waters of a country, not with the number of boats that have a banner of that country.

An alternative explanation is that mediterranean countries just like bureaucracy more.
Probably the busiest stretch of water in the world is the English Channel. Yet the nations bordering that water don't see the need for mandatory licensing for pleasure craft. The "number of boats sailing on the waters of a country" can't be the reason, because it just isn't especially busy in the med.

That's why those countries were the first to feel the need to demand licences to all skippers of pleasure boats sailing on their waters.

This is in fact incorrect, as those countries only require it for boats under their own flag. They do not require it of foreign flagged vessels...

[Polux]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

...
I wouldn't be surprised if there are more more yachts in and around the Solent alone then in the whole of Croatia.

What can I say to that?

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Quote Polux:
"That's why those countries were the first to feel the need to demand licences to all skippers of pleasure boats sailing on their waters."


This is in fact incorrect, as those countries only require it for boats under their own flag. They do not require it of foreign flagged vessels...

And what I can say to this? Except that you don't know what you are talking about:

A licence is required to sail on the waters over the jurisdiction of Portugal, Spain, Italy, Croatia, Slovenia and Greece, not only to their citizens but to all cruising boats sailing there no matter the flag or nationality.

Frequently Asked Questions regarding yacht charter Croatia

http://mymoorings.com/images/ER330.pdf

https://e-uprava.gov.si/e-uprava/en/...godek.id=12664

Sailing and Boating in Italy | AngloINFO Italy

Sailing and Boating in Spain | AngloINFO Spain

Sailing and Boating in Greece | Greece

Sailing and Boating in Portugal | Portugal

[jwing]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

When I took my Professional Engineer licesnse exam, I studied with a great instructor who taught to the test, and this was in 1980! Each weeks homework assignment was made up of examples from previous tests, and face it folks, even in engineering there are only so many questions you can ask. He gave us the answers in writing and if you knew that stuff you passed.

I worked for 40 years in the business, and I know some really good engineers, but there aren't too many. Most don't understand the basic principles and do stuff by rote, miss obvious foreseen consequences and have to start over. It's very disappointing.

They all passed the same test!

That's why the PE license is BS and it's a great argument for what Common Core is trying to do. I'm an engineer, too, and it is very frustrating to work with the majority of engineers who have typical cognitive skills. I think 90% of engineers are at least 20 years behind the other 10%, mainly because the 90% were not taught how to think like the 10% figured out on their own. I wonder with awe where we'd be now if, for the last 50 years, our schools had been teaching kids how to think.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by jwing

That's why the PE license is BS and it's a great argument for what Common Core is trying to do. I'm an engineer, too, and it is very frustrating to work with the majority of engineers who have typical cognitive skills. I think 90% of engineers are at least 20 years behind the other 10%, mainly because the 90% were not taught how to think like the 10% figured out on their own. I wonder with awe where we'd be now if, for the last 50 years, our schools had been teaching kids how to think.

We would not see average real wages go down so precipitously and corporate profits go up so much for the past 45 years. That's for sure. And someone like Snowden would be in Congress instead of on the lam.

[psneeld]

Boating Laws and boating license requirements by state

Here's a map of states requiring some form of licensing...41 require something.

I believe Alabama was first and NJ is one of the strictest enforcers and requires proof of some sort of education to boat in their waters...even from out of state boaters and foreigners.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

We would not see average real wages go down so precipitously and corporate profits go up so much for the past 45 years. That's for sure. And someone like Snowden would be in Congress instead of on the lam.

Do you have a book out or published anyplace?

I love fiction!

[jwing]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

We would not see average real wages go down so precipitously and corporate profits go up so much for the past 45 years. That's for sure. And someone like Snowden would be in Congress instead of on the lam.

AMEN!

[first wind]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Wow! That's what we should do!

But the oil companies wouldn't allow it...

i seriously doubt the oil companies would have a say, or care to take a say, in that. you may not realize it but there are exponetially more cars than boats. also, cars use gas and oil and car drivers must be licensed. i don't seem to recall the oil companies having stood in the way of that. you can't blame them for all the world's woes.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

We would not see average real wages go down so precipitously and corporate profits go up so much for the past 45 years. That's for sure. And someone like Snowden would be in Congress instead of on the lam.

agreed. (although, from what i've seen, i wouldn't say common core is a solution to that but another push in the wrong direction.)

[barnakiel]

What someone said above that all EU countries require licenses IS NOT true. I know of at least two (there may be more) where you can just get a boat and go sailing.

b.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by first wind

i seriously doubt the oil companies would have a say, or care to take a say, in that. you may not realize it but there are exponetially more cars than boats. also, cars use gas and oil and car drivers must be licensed. i don't seem to recall the oil companies having stood in the way of that. you can't blame them for all the world's woes.

Why not, they deserve it. OK, maybe not all, since anchors & religion get in the way.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Why not, they deserve it. OK, maybe not all, since anchors & religion get in the way.

it is popular to claim the oil compamies are evil. after all, they must be evil since they earn a profit by mining, refining, and selling us a product that we need yet can not obtain for ourselves. of course, there are two other alternatives. we could just not have any petrolium products or they could 'act in the public good' and donate their wealth, time, and effort to give us all the oil based products we need; gaining no income for themselves.

of course, by this way of thinking, every business owner or employee, from fast food on up, is also evil because they also earn money in exchange for a service which they provide. also evil must be manufacturers of any products and providers of any services who make any money from their products and services.

since such an assumption is laughable, i can only assume sarcasm on your part.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by Polux

What can I say to that?



And what I can say to this? Except that you don't know what you are talking about:

A licence is required to sail on the waters over the jurisdiction of Portugal, Spain, Italy, Croatia, Slovenia and Greece, not only to their citizens but to all cruising boats sailing there no matter the flag or nationality.

Frequently Asked Questions regarding yacht charter Croatia

http://mymoorings.com/images/ER330.pdf

https://e-uprava.gov.si/e-uprava/en/...godek.id=12664

Sailing and Boating in Italy | AngloINFO Italy

Sailing and Boating in Spain | AngloINFO Spain

Sailing and Boating in Greece | Greece

Sailing and Boating in Portugal | Portugal

AFIK not to visiting cruising boats unless the owners chose to remain long term or take up residency as many retirees indeed do.

Lots of Brit boats visit Spain et al without licences, but they might expect to be asked for some proof of competence which is why I have an ICC,( International Certificate of Competence) issued via the RYA (Royal Yachting ASsociation) in England but note that this is NOT a licence it just shows I have been educated and I'm not a numpty. I just showed my ICC to the USCG today en route to getting a cert/decal to show that we passed their voluntary safety inspection scheme They also looked at my Florida Boater's test passed card which merely proves I have studied and understood their safety rules, (not actually in my case needed since I'm grandfathered out of that requirement by being born before 1st Jan 1988 ( and then some!) I did that because I Want to do things properly and enjoy gaining knowledge but by choice and not enforcement.

Oh and the eastern Med countries just love to get in where they can to charge 'rich' yotties for the pleasures of sailing their waters. Again however no licences are required of visiting foreign vessels only some proof of competence especially from would be Charterers.

WE should not confuse proof of competence which is education, with licencing, which is regulatory control.

BTW I lived in Poole which is close to but not in the Solent in England Poole had some 4,000 boats on it's own, the Solent many more than that . The annual Round the island ( Isle of Wight) yacht race attracts entries of up to 1,200 so I think the numbers of recreational boaters is pretty high yet NO licencing is require and this despite the proximity to the busiest shipping lanes in the world

The culture of education not regulation in the UK wins hands down in my book. Other countries, like here in the USA methinks have a problem with the 'culture' side as in' summer is here, sun is out, gobuy boat, go buy big cooler, big engine, fill cooler with many beers and then go fishin' If the culture doesn't change then regulation/enforcement surely will follow.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

What someone said above that all EU countries require licenses IS NOT true. I know of at least two (there may be more) where you can just get a boat and go sailing.

b.

I know of:
France
The UK
Ireland
Belgium
The Netherlands
Denmark
Sweden
Finland.

That's 8 EU countries, all with sizeable pleasure fleets (Sweden's the biggest in the EU) and all on very busy waterways that don't require licenses...